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Chen Lizra, Jordan Harbinger and Vanessa Van Edwards

Mastering Body Language and Confidence

What you say comes across from more than just words.

There are two things that can make or break you when it comes to achieving greatness: your body language and your confidence.

If you don’t have confidence, you’ll never be able to put yourself out there to the world. You need the confidence to try, and it’s confidence that will help you get back up after your failures.

Once you have the confidence to get out there, your next obstacle is your first impression. Your body language tells someone a lot about you. Sometimes, it may not be what you intended it to say.

Having proper posture, giving people a big smile, and treating everyone like an old friend will go a long way.

These are really important lessons, which is why I wanted to bring you a mashup from Chen Lizra, Jordan Harbinger and Vanessa Van Edwards.

"More and more people are thinking too much and not feeling enough” - Chen Lizra  

I’ve received such an overwhelming response on the past mashups I wanted to bring you another one.

I really suggest you go back and listen to the episode multiple times. There’s so much great advice from all three of these guests, you can’t absorb it all in one sitting.

Take a new nugget of information each day and apply it to your life.

You’ll quickly learn how not only your life can change, but these tips will also affect the people around you.

Learn how you can master your body language and improve your confidence, on Episode 662.

“You should greet everyone like they’re an old friend.” - Vanessa Van Edwards  

Some Questions I Ask:

In this episode, you will learn:

  • How Cuban culture heals the body (6:48)
  • Where we should put our energy to become happy (8:05)
  • The role tempo plays in your body (14:55)
  • What men are commonly missing (18:00)
  • Common misconceptions we have about first impressions (19:53)
  • How your smile affects others (23:10)
  • What makes popular kids popular (28:55)
  • The biggest killer of relationships (30:52)
  • What an ambivert is (32:07)
  • What matters more than IQ (33:13)
  • How you can make your interactions count (35:53)
  • Plus much more…
Connect with
Chen Lizra, Jordan Harbinger and Vanessa Van Edwards

Transcript of this Episode

Lewis Howes:                 This is episode number 662, Mastering Body Language And Confidence.

Welcome to The School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro-athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur and each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now, let the class begin.

Theodore Roosevelt said, “Each time we face our fear, we gain strength, courage and confidence in the doing.”

This episode is all about, how do we master our own body language, understand body language, be able to read it from other people and also increase and improve our confidence in the process of that?

This is a series, that we’ve been doing, based on your feedback. We’ve had 660 plus episodes, some incredible individuals on lots of different topics in the world, and we wanted to do a series where we brought the best ideas from some of them for specific episodes. We’ve done some on sex and relationships, we’ve done some on spirituality, leadership, business.

This one’s on confidence and body language. We’ve got Chen Lizra, Vanessa Van Edwards, Jordan Harbinger, this is a powerful one. Some of these episodes have all done incredible, individually, on their own, have crushed it on the downloads. So we wanted to bring some of the best moments from each one of those and bring them together so you could have this incredible stand-alone episode as well.

If you enjoy this, share it with your friends,, all about mastering body language and confidence.

Before we dive in, a quick shout out to the Fan of the Week! Again, we’ve got over 3,100 five star reviews over on iTunes. If you haven’t left a review yet, go leave one right now, for your chance to be a Fan of the Week.

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“He’s a football player who wants to play Division 1 Football, who’s grades were less than stellar, last year. Well, after reading The School of Greatness with me, and listening to Lewis’ podcasts every morning, this kid is now rocking a 3.7 GPA and is a starting defensive back, for a very competitive varsity/high school team. Scouts will be looking at him for sure next year, but more importantly, as he listened to the podcast, and read the book, he was able to identify where in his life he was holding back, making excuses and lacking integrity with his academic work ethic. I can’t wait to use this book and podcast with other clients! Thanks, Lewis!”

So, that moved me! I really appreciate that one, because, as a football player in the past, who struggled with grades, I could have used this book myself, to improve everything in my grades in school. So, I create the podcast, the books, the events, that I would want to read, listen to or attend.

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Alright, guys! I’m excited about this one! Master Your Body Language and Increase Your Confidence!

* * *

Chen Lizra:                      I got to find a way to heal the body. Looking back, it wasn’t really the seduction. I thought it was the seduction. It was what Cubans had in their culture that caused my body, over time, to heal from the trauma. I’m pretty sure I’m down to about 2%, the very loose of 2%, that I cleaned my body from the trauma.

Lewis Howes:                 What did they have in the culture that allowed you to free yourself?

Chen Lizra:                      One of them is the sabrosura. Sabrosura is the sensuality that’s inside each and every one of us that sits on physical self-love. So, think about it as a society that doesn’t have material things for that many years.

You’re talking about a country that got locked because of Communism, and Socialism, where there’s no advertising on the streets or anywhere. Not on TV, and not on the radio, no advertising. You’re in a sterile place. And then you don’t have internet on your phones and you don’t have the crazy technology that we have, and everybody is still on the streets, connecting, like in the fifties and the sixties. Old school.

Lewis Howes:                 Talking to each other. In person!

Chen Lizra:                      Yeah. Knock on the door when you need somebody, rather than texting and WhatsApping, and they didn’t have material things, but everybody didn’t have material things, together. So there was a solidarity. And then, what happens when we don’t have material things, where do we put that energy, to become happy? Where do you think?

Lewis Howes:                 With each other? With ourselves, and with each other.

Chen Lizra:                      Right. In human connections. Exactly the point, right? Like, if you can’t be out there, then you go in. So, they found ways that create a natural high through body movements that release dopamine and endorphins.

Lewis Howes:                 And it’s constant, right? It’s all the time.

Chen Lizra:                      Yes. It’s all the time.

Lewis Howes:                 Just like it’s all the time for us on our phones, it’s all the time, but it’s real, in real life.

Chen Lizra:                      Yes. So, this is one of the things. And, on top of that, when they’re moving with the sabrosura, and there’s sabrosura for women, and sabrosura for men, it actually sits in physical self-love that gets released in the body, and you feel that warmth, and you feel good, suddenly, about yourself.

Lewis Howes:                 You feel confident.

Chen Lizra:                      Also confident, but also, love. You feel the love, you feel good about yourself. People that I get to experience the sabrosura, I say, “Well, do you feel it in your body right now?” and they say, “Yes.” I’ll go, like, “Where? Stomach, chest, what are you feeling?”


That’s self-love, physical self-love. So, really, what brought me to Cuba, if we really look at it in a deeper way, was that they had the knowledge to heal my body and seduce me at the same time.

Lewis Howes:                 Yeah, exactly! When, do you think, we started to lose the connection with our body, and why do we lose the connection, in general?

Chen Lizra:                      Oh, that’s a really great question. The really interesting thing is, going to Cuba – this is what fascinates me about Cuba – it’s like taking a time machine back. So, I take a time machine back and I experience the way things were. Then I take it back here, and I see the way we live. And in that I understand many things.

So, what happened to us, gradually, is that we wanted to become more effective, we wanted to be more productive, we wanted to produce more, we wanted to achieve more, we wanted to have more, we wanted to sell more, we wanted to market more. Capitalism. That’s what happened to us.

So, as that happened, we had to start giving up things. So, we gave up romance. We don’t have time for romance. People don’t have time for romance, mostly. They’re too busy running fast. Some people don’t have time for their kids.

We want to achieve, we want to fulfil ourselves, and it’s not a bad thing, it’s all about balance. If you notice, more and more people are thinking too much, and not feeling enough. And that’s where you start to see people also get sick. Because the body signals when we’re out of balance.

But then, they don’t listen to the signals. They shove caffeine, they shove medication, and they keep going. But the body tells you to stop, and you’re not listening, so what is the body going to do? Make you sicker.

Lewis Howes:                 Shut down, make you sick, depressed, anxious.

Chen Lizra:                      Right, which is what we’re seeing today.

Lewis Howes:                 Yeah, wow! And what happens when we rediscover our natural sensuality? Or our bodies?

Chen Lizra:                      Well, it’s not just a sensuality, right? It’s basically this: So, we’ve got the five elements of somatic intelligence, and it’s really about coming back to our true nature. So, when we’re in true nature, everything’s balanced, and we’re at our optimal place.

And we have to keep the elements balanced, and we’ve got to also think about the fact that we need to balance between material and social. If one takes over the other, something comes out of balance.

Lewis Howes:                 Right, so what’s our true…?

Chen Lizra:                      Nature. So, we’ve got five elements.

Lewis Howes:                 And these you call the somatic intelligence?

Chen Lizra:                      Yeah, the five elements of somatic intelligence. So, one is elegance. I’m not talking about clothing, I’m talking about our being. So, elegance is the possession of ourselves, the quietness of being ourselves, it’s when you’ve got that, you know, the past generations, the way they were and the way they behaved?

They had elegance in their being. Obama is very elegant in how he behaves, right? And we admire him for that. He’s like a a role model for how – in the being, I’m not just talking about, you can just mute him and look – there’s something about his being that says, ‘elegance’. The same with Michele Obama. So that’s the element of confidence.

Intention is the one that is connected to meaning and drive. So, I always get up at the end. So, when we think ‘intention’, if I’m, let’s say, standing right now like this, what does my body say?

Lewis Howes:                 Maybe unsure or quiet or reserved or shy or…

Chen Lizra:                      Exactly, right? Or avoiding, but I’m not in the situation. And now, what am I saying? I’m going to shift it. So, now what am I saying?

Lewis Howes:                 More confident, I guess, more interested, more elegant.

Chen Lizra:                      So, what I did is, I went from avoiding the situation back to being in the situation. The intention is always forward-going, and it’s the element of doing. It’s like we’re right there and it’s the goal and it’s the thing. The energy goes there. So when the body is towards there, it’s like, “Haaa!”

Now, somatically, if your body is in that position, then you’re really already getting yourself to be there, because it changes the chemistry in our bodies. So, you know how Amy Cuddy talks about the power pose, right? So, if I put people into elegance, which is the being, and I put them into two minutes of elegance, and I will ask them at the beginning, “How do you feel right now for your confidence,” before we do that.

If they’re feeling really bad, they will describe it between zero and four, if they’re having a really bad day. By the end of it they’ll say, probably, six to eight. Because the chemistry in the body changes in two minutes, which changes the behaviour, which changes the results. So, this is the being, that quiets the noise and the turmoil, right?

And this is the doing, so it’s like I’m going and I’m doing. They have to balance each other. If I’m just too much intention, I’m not really…

Lewis Howes:                 You’re not balanced.

Chen Lizra:                      Right. If I’m just really elegant, what’s missing right now?

Lewis Howes:                 The doing, yeah.

Chen Lizra:                      The doing. But if I’ve got both, then I’m with the intention, and I’ve got that thing that comes down to nerves and all these things.

Lewis Howes:                 So, having that slight doing, elegance, calms nerves? Is that what you’re saying?

Chen Lizra:                      No, the elegance calms nerves. The doing doesn’t calm the nerves, you get the nerves because you’re doing and you’re taking risks and stuff, but when we have the elegance in there, it balances the doing and it creates… If I go into meetings, and I’m really nervous, I’ll put tons of elegance in, and it quiets the system, right? Then I come in more balanced.

Lewis Howes:                 So, that’s intention?

Chen Lizra:                      Intention. The next one is tempo, which is the element of enjoyment. So, tempo, let’s say that this is a tempo that we take. And it doesn’t matter if it’s slow or fast, it works for both. Most people, now, their tempo of their body is addiction. Addiction to the race of the pace.

So, I’ll give them thing, and they’ll get there, and they’re already thinking of the next thing, and they haven’t even gotten there and they get, like, you know, when they get, like, da-ta-ta, da-ta-ta, ta! But if I take enjoyment, I’m enjoying myself, I’m enjoying the journey, versus, “Got there.” It’s the same tempo.

The one, there’s no enjoyment, and then the one, I’m like, I’m taking the juice of life, which is all about, I’m not just about getting to the end goal, I’m going to enjoy also the journey.

Lewis Howes:                  Experiencing it, yeah.

Chen Lizra:                      Which is what happens to us with stress and anxiety and depression, is that we get so about…

Lewis Howes:                 The next step, yeah.

Chen Lizra:                      Right. That we’re not there, we’re not present any more. So, this is the tempo. When I change the tempo, I can change your tempo and that would release endorphins and dopamine, and in the session you start to feel good, because you’re high now, because I slow you down a little bit. We’re running faster than the natural tempo.

Lewis Howes:                 And I break that down into just celebrating the small wins of your day. Like, what are you grateful for in the morning?

Chen Lizra:                      Gratitude.

Lewis Howes:                 And every little win, acknowledge it, as opposed to waiting for the end journey of the big goal at the end. You know, smiling at someone down the street, appreciating that moment.

Chen Lizra:                      That’s enjoyment. That’s when you’re really enjoying your life, and you’re not trying to get to the end goal, where you’re going to die anyway.

Lewis Howes:                 Exactly! You can’t take anything with you anyway!

Chen Lizra:                      No, and people live life like it’s a trial life. But what about the years that you’re going through? Those are the ones that count, right? So, then you have the sabrosura, and the sabrosura that is, like I said, it’s the sensuality that sits on self-love. So it’s connected to love.

And, the sabrosura, as you can see, is not just any sensuality, because, like, I can just move with sensuality, okay? That’s sensuality, but if I’m moving with the sabrosura there’s something extra, right? And I’m doing the female one right now. And what is that? It’s because, when I’m looking at my hands, I’m looking at them as if they are the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen.

And that’s what self-love is. I’m not going, like, “My fingers look really fat, and I hate them, and I don’t like my nails.” Whatever we think translates into how we also move, because if I look at the flaws, I’m missing the beauty of it, then I’m missing the love. And that also affects…

Lewis Howes:                 So, it’s how we look at ourselves. It’s how we think about, our self talk, inner thoughts.

Chen Lizra:                      Negative self talk, or positive. But that’s one aspect of it. The other aspect of it is also when we talk about containing other people. And you know when people get, let’s say, aggressive.

When we talk about men who are taking things away. So, what do they have really strong? Which element right now?

Lewis Howes:                 Their intention.

Chen Lizra:                      Exactly! Right, so they have a really strong intention, they know what they want. What’s missing?

Lewis Howes:                 Elegance?

Chen Lizra:                      One, right. That place of respect, of honour, of being a gentleman. What else is missing?

Lewis Howes:                 Well, that they’re not playful, I guess, that they’re being aggressive, but…

Chen Lizra:                      Well, sabrosura, love, right?

Lewis Howes:                 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chen Lizra:                      Love is about bettering off the other person. It’s not about taking something. So, it’s not really the elements that we need to tone down, if you see it as a minus and a plus, it’s which ones are missing, that balance it. So, if we look – and I’ll explain to you mystery in a minute – if we look, for example at, and let’s look at a culture now, not a person, if we look at the US, which element is super strong right now?

Lewis Howes:                 If we look at the US? The intention, right?

Chen Lizra:                      Yes. Right. What’s missing, what got turned down lately?

Lewis Howes:                 The love, the elegance.

Chen Lizra:                      Exactly. Those, so, if we think, Obama to Trump, those got turned down. And this is why it’s not working. You have to keep them in balance to be in true nature. And mystery, that’s the trickiest one, because this is where, not just the playfulness is, but that’s where the seduction is. And that’s where there’s that energy of, like, “M-hmm…” and that’s where people get scared, because there’s a grey area there. You can’t really box it, because it’s a life energy.

* * *

Jordan Harbinger:          One of the sort of common misconceptions is that our first impressions that we make on other people are the first thing that we say, or the first interaction that we have, and that sounds reasonable when you’re thinking about making a good first impression with people in general.

However, what we know from science, and I’ll back up and prove this real quick, is that our first impression is not made when we open our mouth, it’s made when we become a blip on the other person’s radar. And so, what I mean by that is, our perception of other people, and this is Evolutionary Psychology 101 here, is that we do snap judgements of people based on what we see.

And we have to do that, it’s a safety thing. Women are ten thousand times better at this than men – that’s not a scientific measurement – because they have a safety question that is just the elephant in the room every single time.

Lewis Howes:                 “Is the person safe to be around?”

Jordan Harbinger:          “Is this person safe?” right, whereas you and I don’t. I only think about that when it’s like, face tattoos and serious dark alley type stuff.

Lewis Howes:                 Yeah, yeah, some huge dude.

Jordan Harbinger:          Yeah, and even then, if I’m in a movie theatre and there’s a guy who’s 6’6″ and has face tattoos, I’m like, “Hey, man, pass the popcorn,” I don’t care, right? But if I’m outside at night in Hollywood, or something like that, then it’s a different story. But for those perceptions that we make, they’re made completely non-verbally.

And you can test that just by going out for a walk right now – or maybe after the show – go out for a walk and see when you make a judgement of the next people that you see, and it’s going to be before you talk to them. Unless they sneak up on you, in which case you’ve got other issues!

But, the reason this is important is because, since we’re making those judgements the second we see people, and it’s happening at a subconscious level in our brain, that means that our first impressions are always made non-verbally.

And so, this is really, really important, because people who spend a lot of time thinking, “What do I say? How do I start this conversation? What do I do to approach this person and get them to like me?” That all becomes far less relevant.

Lewis Howes:                 It’s not as much important about what you say or even how you’re saying it, it’s more about who you’re being in the way you’re saying it and beforehand. Right?

Jordan Harbinger:          Exactly, yeah. It becomes far less relevant to the actual connection that you have with that person.

Lewis Howes:                 And before you get into the drill, I’ll back that up by giving, as a positive example of this, there’s so many times, like, when I was single, years ago, even, not even the last time I was single, but years ago, in my early twenties, when I was trying to say hi to every girl.

Jordan Harbinger:          Sure, right! Say hi!

Lewis Howes:                 Like, I never knew what to say. I always felt like this dumb kid, I didn’t have anything clever to say, I’m not this smart kid. But I thought, “You know what? Let me just practice using the gifts that I do have, which is that I can smile.” I can smile and come up to someone with positive energy, and be open-hearted and just smile and look them in the eyes.

And not stare into their soul, or whatever, just kind of make them a little bit uncomfortable, and like, “Oh, that’s interesting that this person has the confidence to look at me for two seconds and then just keep walking,” or whatever, or say hello.

And when I would do that, I would always feel like, if I came with a big smile, like, genuine, almost 100% of the time, the girl would talk to me. Or whoever I wanted to talk to would talk back and there would be this friendly conversation. Just that one little cue of ‘big heart, big smile.’

Jordan Harbinger:          And there’s a lot of switches being flipped in the sub-conscious mind when that happens, which is the safety switch, which is, “Well, okay, dangerous people often don’t smile,” which isn’t true, by the way, but that’s why dangerous people do overemphasise a smile, because they’re often overly charming because they are dangerous and they’re predators.

That’s another thing for another show. I had a show with Gavin De Becker, The Gift of Fear. We talked a lot about that, but yeah, you’re right. You’re flipping a lot of the right switches, which is, “Look, this person is friendly, this person is maybe safer, this person isn’t judging me right now or has judged me in a positive way,” which is great, so there’s approval there.

That’s very welcoming to a lot of people. And then, of course, you having other friends in the same room is also very helpful. Any situation like that that comes about can add to a positive first impression.

Lewis Howes:                 Right. But I never said anything unique or clever, I was just, “Oh, we can have conversation by just being positive.”

Jordan Harbinger:          Yeah, exactly! And I think a lot of guys, when they’re dating, especially, if they don’t know how to start conversations, or even if you’re going up to your favourite speaker at an event or something like that, often people are like, “Oh, I don’t know what to say,” and it’s like, “Well, it doesn’t really matter,” because here’s what’s happening: If you’re not saying anything, I’m getting a weird vibe from the creepy quiet person who’s just staring at me trying to figure out what to say.

Because your body does weird stuff when your mind is otherwise engaged. So, it’s better to just turn that off. So, if you’re thinking, “Hmmm, what do I say? What am I going to do?” then you just look strange and you look unapproachable, and the gears are turning.

And we don’t think, and you guys can probably back this up, if a guy walks up to a female and he is nervous, a lot of times, if he looks like the type of guy who shouldn’t be nervous, like, if it’s Lewis and he walks up and he’s like, nervous and fidgety, you’re not thinking, “Oh, how cute, he’s nervous!”

You’re thinking, ” Okay, what is going on here? This is creepy, I don’t get it, why is this person creeping me out?” and we mirror people naturally. I will mirror your emotions, women will mirror our emotions, they’ll mirror each other’s emotions. That’s a human thing.

So, if I’m nervous and anxious, other people are going to start to become that way in the interaction, and they’re not going to go, “Oh, you know, he probably has a little bit of anxiety because he’s not used to being in a roomful…”

No, that’s not what’s happening. What’s happening is they’re going, “He’s nervous. What’s he going to do? Because I’m nervous now, and I don’t know why. And since I don’t know why, I’m just going to leave, which will make me feel not nervous, which is where I want to be, that’s my comfort zone.”

So, you end up making other people feel strange. Whether through eye contact that doesn’t match the rest of your body, eye contact that seems like there’s an intent behind what you’re doing that’s not the words that you’re saying. So, all of these things goes back to, ‘the body can’t lie’, that first take away.

The body can lie, it’s just very hard. But the body certainly will give away and betray your intentions, it just might be that the other person’s perception of your intentions is incorrect. Does that make sense?

Lewis Howes:                 Of course, yeah.

Jordan Harbinger:          And so, what we try to do, is create positive first impressions, that, we now know, have to be non-verbal. And they have to be positive, they have to be open and they have to make sense. And they have to portray the intent that we have, which is, hopefully, positive, friendly, open, loving, whatever positive adjective you want to throw in there.

Lewis Howes:                 Right, so what’s the drill then?

Jordan Harbinger:          So the drill, I call this the doorway drill, it’s kind of an Art of Charm staple. And what this is, is when you’re confident, you naturally are upright. You basically just did this. Upright, open body language, smile on your face, chin up, ideally, chest forward, shoulders back. You don’t have to be Superman pose or anything, those Power Posing things, those studies are hard to replicate, I’ll put it that way.

But if we remember what we look like in this position and we’re doing this socially and this is how we feel positive, open, loving, open-hearted, I think, is the word that you used, if we use this every time that we walk through a doorway, we no longer have to do this manually.

Because, what a lot of people do is, they go, “Oh, good, right, open, tall, positive, body language, put a smile on my face! That’s going to work next time I go into a place and start a conversation.” But the problems crop up when you’re trying to do what we just talked about, what you just talked about, and you’re trying to remember to do that at odd times. Not going to happen.

It’s kind of like telling yourself, “Remember to notice things,” it’s an impossible task, right? You can’t do it. You can’t be mindful of your verbal and non-verbal communication and stay present in the conversation.

It’s too many things for your brain to concentrate on, with different parts at the same time, it’s very difficult. I don’t know anybody who’s good at it, and still looks natural doing it. So, we have to relegate the positive, friendly, open, non-verbal communication to the level of habit.

And the way that we do that is with the doorway drill. Doing that upright, shoulders back, chin up, chest out, smile on your face, every time you walk through a doorway, even in your own house. When we have that, when you have that posture going, I don’t know, how many, I should count how many times I walk through a doorway.

And I’ll tell you, to illustrate my earlier point, I’ve tried to count, in a day, how many times I walk through a doorway. But you can’t, because you just can’t remember to count every time you walk through a doorway, just like you can’t remember to straighten up, put your shoulders back, every time you have a conversation. It’s impossible. You’re not going to do it.

You need to make it a habit. If you do it every time you walk through a doorway, let’s say you walk through a doorway a hundred times on an average day in your office or your house, you will eventually have a habit of having upright, positive, non-verbal communication.

And you’ve got to do it every day, because, I just got off a plane. I’ve been sitting like this for two hours. You’ve got to reset, and you have to constantly reset every time you sit up, stand up.

* * *

Vanessa Van Edwards:  I have always been fascinated by the popular kids, right?  These magnetic, sort of, what makes a kid cool or popular, or whatever that is. And Van Sloan just did a really interesting experiment with teenagers, can you guess what makes the most popular kids popular? Like, what is it? It could be anything from attractiveness to clothing to the way they talk. You get to guess. Listeners guess too.

Lewis Howes:                 What makes a popular person popular?

Vanessa Van Edwards:  Yes.

Lewis Howes:                 Their confidence? I don’t know, they’re outgoing?

Vanessa Van Edwards:  Okay, I would have guessed outgoing, that’s exactly what I would have guessed. Extroverted, talkative, which I was like, “Oh, please don’t let it be that.” So, first of all, it wasn’t attractiveness, which I think is very important for people to keep in mind. It wasn’t the most beautiful girls or the hottest guys. What it was, is the most popular kids, also liked the most people.

Lewis Howes:                 That makes sense.

Vanessa Van Edwards:  And now that I heard that, which is exactly what you just said.

Lewis Howes:                 As opposed to just five people, they like everyone.

Vanessa Van Edwards:  Yes, exactly. What he found was, is that the most popular kids, when they were asked, “Who do you like?” They had the longest list. And that also meant that they were liked by the most people. And this was measured by, typically, they smiled more in the hallways.

So they would do the – so, you tell me if this is right – so, men, when they see someone they know, they give the upward, “Hey, nice to see you,” it’s like an acknowledgement, versus, if you don’t know someone, but you want to acknowledge them, you give them the downward nod. Is that right?

Lewis Howes:                 Probably. Yes, if you’re conditioned that way. I try to just smile at everyone.

Vanessa Van Edwards:  Okay, so that’s the cool kids then.

Lewis Howes:                 Because you train yourself. I just started smiling at everyone in the hallways, too. Like, “Hey! How are you? Good to see you,” just like, yeah. Give a compliment or something.

Vanessa Van Edwards:  Without realising it, and that’s what I read about in your chapter, without realising it, you were actually activating a scientific principle, that we like people who like us.

Lewis Howes:                 It makes sense. You’re not going to like people that hate you, or ignore you.

Vanessa Van Edwards:  No, or, and this is the real killer of relationships people do not think of, we talk a lot about toxic people, right? Difficult people, toxic people, but actually the killer is ambivalence.

Lewis Howes:                 You’re not sure.

Vanessa Van Edwards:  Yeah, you’re not sure, “Do they like me? Do I like them? Were we friendly?”

Lewis Howes:                 Uncertainty.

Vanessa Van Edwards:  That actually takes up more mental energy than the toxic people. And they did a study with police officers where they found that police officers, who have more ambivalent relationships versus police officers who had a lot of toxic relationships, the ambivalent ones actually had less efficiency, they had less happiness and career satisfaction and they skipped more days of work.

That’s because, if someone’s toxic, you know, you don’t want to sit with them at lunch, you don’t want to stop by their desk, it’s clear. Ambivalent, you’re like, “Should I invite them to lunch? Or no?”

Lewis Howes:                 Yeah, it’s not safe, you’re unsure.

Vanessa Van Edwards:  Yeah, and I think that’s the key word, is safety. And so, ambivalence. When you like someone, you clearly are smiling nodding, “Hey, what’s up? Good to see you,” and the person’s like, “Whew, I’m liked,” and that is the greatest feeling of safety in the world.

And so, if you go to a conference, you have a big conference coming up, you’re really nervous, I don’t want you to think about being extroverted, especially if you’re an introvert or an ambivert. Like, no, don’t pretend.

Lewis Howes:                 Ambervert?

Vanessa Van Edwards:  Ambivert.

Lewis Howes:                 Ambivert, what’s that?

Vanessa Van Edwards:  I’m an ambivert, an ambivert is, if introvert and extrovert never felt right to you, it’s when you can flip into extroversion if you need to, or in the right situation. So, for me right now, I’m not that nervous. I am a little bit nervous, but not terribly. Like learning, one-on-one situations, conferences, I’m okay. Nightclubs, bars, those kinds of things, no.

So, if you are in those situations, going to a conference, don’t think about, “How can I be more extroverted? How can I be more outgoing?” It’s actually, “How can I just like more people?”

When I’m a conference, you were at WDS, that’s where I go every year, and all of my trainers, my Science of Succeeding with People trainers, and I say, “Our one thing is, we are inviting everyone to sit with us, we are inviting everyone to come to lunch with us. If you see someone standing alone, we say hello, we invite them to come over.”

That is our number one goal, and so that’s an easier way to tackle big groups and conferences. It’s just, how can you like more people?

Lewis Howes:                 Yeah, that’s cool!

Vanessa Van Edwards:  I was very focussed on IQ, growing up. Book smart, technical skills. I never heard about PQ, I never heard about social or emotional intelligence. So, there’s all these IQ tests and things like that, but I found that a really good way to start is, “Where is your smarts?” Right? Like, socially, what are your social strengths?

We even have Strengthsfinder 2.0. I’m working on something right now, where I want to do Socialstrengths 2.0, like, what are our social strengths, which are just as important as some of our capabilities. And so the quiz is sort of like, “Okay, where are you at right now? How good are you decoding?”

When we talk about social intelligence, there’s really two things we’re talking about. Decoding, so, spotting cues, spotting hidden emotions, decoding lies, and Encoding. Encoding are the signals that you send out to others. So we’re kind of testing both sides of that.

Lewis Howes:                 Got it, got it. And I read that people with a higher EQ or PQ also make more than people…

Vanessa Van Edwards:  $29,000 more per year according to the latest research.

Lewis Howes:                 Than someone with a high IQ, or a lower?

Vanessa Van Edwards:  A lower EQ.

Lewis Howes:                 Lower, so higher EQ, you’re going to make more, 90% of the time.

Vanessa Van Edwards:  That’s right, and that’s because we are interacting with people in ways that we don’t even quantify or realise. Like, every time you send an e-mail, that e-mail has to be received, processed. There’s a difference between having somebody respond to it right away and having it sit in their inbox for five days, right?

Negotiating, interviewing, around the water cooler – people still have water coolers in their office. And my team is all virtual, and I still am using that PQ, every day, all day. One exercise that sometimes I think about, you can do this if you’re listening, is, in the course of a day, make a note of every single interpersonal interaction that you have. It will shock you how many of those there are and how big of an impact they have.

Even if it’s just a casual coffee, all the possibilities that could come out of that interaction, and so you mark one column with all of the interactions you have. The second column is, if that interaction went as good as it could possibly go, what magic could happen for you?

Lewis Howes:                 So much. So much.

Vanessa Van Edwards:  So much. But, instead, a lot of our interactions are, “Meh.”

Lewis Howes:                 Average, so you get average results.

Vanessa Van Edwards:  Exactly.

Lewis Howes:                 And when you, you know, I’m thinking about it and I have hundreds of these interactions per day, potentially. Especially with social media and e-mails and in person, or if you’re at events. Yesterday I was at Oprah’s event, Super Soul Sessions, and there were thousands of people, but I met a lot of people, even for ten seconds I met people.

And I remember, there were a number of people, even if I just met them and gave them a hug, they always left a comment, like, “Man, you give really good hugs,” as opposed to just, “Oh, nice to meet you,” off. Like, they always said something that was a positive reinforcement.

And, for me, maybe the next time, and it may be months later when I see them, but they’ll remember I gave a good hug.

Vanessa Van Edwards:  Absolutely. So that was, you took something in an interaction, even in ten seconds, and you made it above average.

Lewis Howes:                 Yes, I mean, I have awkward, long hugs. I try not to make them awkward, but I try to make them like, not super awkward, like, “Get off me!” But just a little extra, like just an extra second, and when they’re about to pull away, I squeeze a little bit more. They’re like, “Oh, okay!” Sometimes it goes bad, but most of the time it works.

Vanessa Van Edwards:  I mean, I have a theory that you should greet everyone like they’re an old friend.

Lewis Howes:                 That’s good! Yes! That’s what I do.

Vanessa Van Edwards:  Yes. Because, if you have that mentality, the same with an e-mail, you give so much more, excitement, whatever. It’s like, “Oh, my gosh,” you haven’t seen this friend in three years, how would you greet them? That is the way that I think you should greet most people.

Lewis Howes:                 “My goooooosh!” Maybe not screaming, but, yeah!

Vanessa Van Edwards:  Like, “Whaaaa!” that’s the girl scream, if two girls get together, like I told you the volume would go up on me once I got excited, because we scream, we go up. What I was going to say, also, about that, which is also very smart, is, it doesn’t need to be a five minute interaction, it can be ten seconds.

A lot of the time we focus on productivity, we focus on efficiency, we focus on maximising our business revenue. All those things are great, but if we focus on some of the social aspects of that, it makes it so much easier. Like, let’s not just optimise our IQ, our business acumen. Let’s also optimise our social acumen.

Because, if you make that list of every interaction you have, and all the good things that could happen if it went really well, it’s magic in every other area.

Lewis Howes:                 Yeah, magic. And, oh gosh, that’s why I love this stuff! Because I feel like this has really been, kind of like the key to my results in business and in life. Because I would probably, if I took and IQ test, I probably wouldn’t even, you know, I don’t know. I don’t even know what those rankings are, I don’t even know what the lowest is, I probably would be at the bottom.

And so, for me, it just feels like I stack, and stack, and stack so much good PQ? Is that right? EQ? PQ? SQ? Whatever you call it.

Vanessa Van Edwards:  Yeah, that’s exactly right.

Lewis Howes:                 Social, yeah, and I feel like, people care more about how you make them feel, as opposed to how smart you are or whatever.

Vanessa Van Edwards:  Yes, and that quote, that famous quote, I think it’s by Maya Angelou.

Lewis Howes:                 Yeah, “People don’t care how much you know, until they know how much you care,” is one quote.

Vanessa Van Edwards:  Yes, and then, “People remember…”

Lewis Howes:                 “People don’t remember what you say, but they remember the way you made them feel.”

Vanessa Van Edwards:  Oh, gosh, quote, quote! Mind mouths!

Lewis Howes:                 Those are my two favourite quotes.

Vanessa Van Edwards:  Yes! I saw that quote, that second quote, what I just explained with the skydivers, that is the scientific reason behind that quote. So, in the book, I talk about these quotes we say all the time. Like the Dale Carnegie, you know, “Be interested to be interesting.” What is the science behind that?

Lewis Howes:                 Yeah, not just, “Oh, that’s a cool philosophy.”

Vanessa Van Edwards:  Right, because now, that Maya Angelou quote, you could actually think to yourself, “What emotion do I want to infect today?” Is it gratitude? Is it excitement? Is it fulfilment?

And, by the way, this doesn’t mean that you cannot be vulnerable, this doesn’t mean you cannot have a bad day. This doesn’t mean that you can’t go into a meeting and be like, “I am so sorry, but I’m feeling really down.”

In fact, I have those days, we all do. I regularly do not cancel meetings on those days, I feel that I would rather go in and say, “Listen, I am just overwhelmed, I’m sorry for that,” because I also want to catch theirs. It’s not just a one-way street. We don’t just infect, I also like to be infected by others.

* * *

Lewis Howes:                 Oh! Do you feel more confident after this already? Do you feel like you know how to command a room and how to optimise your body language in any setting? If so, let me know – is the link to share it with your friends, to get all the show notes, and to get the links for each of the individual episodes that we talked about in this episode as well.

Share with me, over on Instagram, @LewisHowes, again, share with your friends, tell them the click and the link, swipe up, all the good stuff, if you think it will help them and be a resource and a tool for mastering their own body language and increasing their confidence as well.

Again, a big thank you to everyone that we featured on this episode, you can check them out on our show notes.

And, again, if you haven’t signed up for your ticket for The Summit of Greatness, we are three months out from our annual event. There are going to be a couple of thousand people from around the world, flying in.

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