Secrets To Negotiating In Life & Business MASTERCLASS

Text "GREATNESS" to Lewis at 614-350-3960


Jason Harris

The Soulful Art of Persuasion


A lot of books about selling encourage you to act like someone you’re not.

They tell you to say the other person’s name. Copy their body language. Become a salesman.

But what if the key to selling is accepting who you are?

What if everything weird about you is what will make you successful?

Stop thinking of business as transactional.

Instead, be generous. Play the long game.

And be kind.

On today’s episode of The School of Greatness, I talk about the soulful art of persuasion with an expert in marketing: Jason Harris.

“Turn and face the strange.” @Jason_Harris  

Jason Harris is the CEO of the award-winning creative agency Mekanism and the co-founder of the Creative Alliance. Harris works closely with brands through a blend of soul and science to create provocative campaigns that engage audiences. Iconic brands include Peloton, Ben & Jerry’s, MillerCoors, HBO, and the United Nations. Under his leadership, Mekanism was named to Ad Age’s Agency A-list, twice to their Best Places to Work, and to the Creativity 50. Harris has been named in the Top 10 Most Influential Social Impact Leaders, as well as the 4A’s list of “100 People Who Make Advertising Great.” His methods are studied in cases at Harvard Business School.

Jason has put together four principles of persuasion that can help transform you into a master influencer. The bullet points are easy to understand and might even surprise you.

So get ready to learn the soulful art of persuasion on Episode 848.

“Never Be Closing.” @Jason_Harris  

Some Questions I Ask:

  • What’s the most fun you’ve had working on a brand? (10:00)
  • How can you be empathetic when people are attacking you? (31:00)
  • What’s something people can do today to make them more influential (43:00)
  • What are you three truths? (46:00)

In this episode, you will learn:

  • About Jason’s company Mekanism (6:00)
  • Why you should never be closing (12:30)
  • How vulnerability is key to power (16:00)
  • The Four Core Principles of persuasion (19:00)
  • Why it’s important to master different skills (38:00)
  • Plus much more…
Connect with
Jason Harris

Transcript of this Episode

Male Announcer: This is episode number 848 with Jason Harris.

[background music]

Lewis Howes: Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro-athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today and now let the class begin.

Roosevelt once said, “People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.” This episode is all about the soulful art of persuasion and how to persuade people to buy into you, to buy into your beliefs, your vision, your skill set, anything you want to do to persuade people. There are a certain ways to do it that comes across authentically. And in a way that makes people know how much you care about them, not tricks, not some type of strategy that’s trying to fool people over to persuade them, but really how to show people how much you care in order to move forward in the life of your dreams. And Jason Harris is the CEO of the award-winning creative agency Mekanism and the co-founder of the Creative Alliance. He works closely with brands through a blend of soul and science to create provocative campaigns that engage audiences. Iconic brands like Peloton, Ben & Jerry’s, Miller Coors, HBO, and the United Nations. He’s been named in the Top 10 Most Influential Social Impact Leaders, as well as the 4A’s list of “100 People Who Make Advertising Great. His methods are studied in cases at Harvard Business School, and his new book, The Soulful Art of Persuasion, The 11 Habits That Will Make Anyone a Master Influencer is out right now.

And in this episode, we talked about why playing the long game is more important than trying to close the deal right now. And he’s got a simple philosophy on how to close deals. The value of leaning into your quirks and your imperfections, and why your imperfections will help you stand out from the rest. The power of storytelling and how the mind processes stories versus facts, why you should always choose collaboration over competition, and how empathy is a key component of persuasion, and so many other keys to persuading people into anything. Super excited about this one. Make sure to share with your friends, 

And before we dive in, big thank you to our sponsor today NetSuite, if you don’t know the numbers in your business, if you’re not clear on the numbers that are going in, that are going out, then you really don’t understand your business fully. That’s why when introduced to you NetSuite by Oracle; this is the business management software that handles every aspect of your business in one easy to use Cloud Platform, giving you the visibility and the control that you need to grow your business the right way. With NetSuite, you can save time, you save money, and unneeded headaches by managing sales, finance and accounting orders, and HR instantly right from your desktop or your phone. That’s why NetSuite is the world’s number one cloud business system.

And right now, NetSuite is offering you a valuable free guide. This guide is powerful. It’s the 7 Key Strategies To Grow Your Profits. You can get the free guide at Again, to download this free guide, it’s called 7 Key Strategies to Grow Your Profits. Make sure to check it out right now and download the free guide at

And big thank you to our sponsor DoorDash. Now I love DoorDash because I love having food delivered to my door at all times a day during work, when I’m busy, and I can’t get out DoorDash connects you to your favorite restaurant in your city. Not only is your favorite pizza joint already on DoorDash, but there are over 340,000 restaurants in 3300 cities. So you might find a few new spots as well. And with door to door delivery in all 50 states and Canada, order from your local go-to’s or choose your favorite national restaurant like Chipotle, Wendy’s, and Chick-fil-A, and Cheesecake Factory there’s lots of restaurants on DoorDash. And don’t worry about dinner. Let dinner come to you with DoorDash.

Right now, School of Greatness listeners can get $5 off their first order of $15 or more when you download the DoorDash app and enter the promo code GREATNESS. That’s $5 off your first order when you download the DoorDash app from the App Store and enter the promo code GREATNESS. So make sure to download the app right now, the DoorDash app and use the promo code greatness for $5 off your first order from DoorDash. 

Big thank you to our sponsors, NetSuite and DoorDash. And without further ado, let’s dive into this episode all about the powerful, Soulful Art of Persuasion with Jason Harris.

[background music]

Lewis Howes: So this book, all about Soulful Art of Persuasion. I’m excited about this. 

Jason Harris: Oh, yeah. It’s like, it’s sort of like, did you ever read this? 

Lewis Howes: [00:05:31 – crosstalk]? Yes. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. How to win friends? 

Lewis Howes: Yes, it’s great. This is an updated version. 

Jason Harris: It’s updated version that’s for the modern age. 

Lewis Howes: I love it.

Jason Harris: I went back and read all those books. 

Lewis Howes: And you’re like, what’s missing? 

Jason Harris: Well, they’re like, it’s almost like act a certain way. Like, don’t be yourself. 

Lewis Howes: It’s like fake. 

Jason Harris: It’s like fake. And it’s like, get them talking, be interested in the things the other person is interested in. 

Lewis Howes: Yes. 

Jason Harris: Versus leaning into who you are and your quirks. 

Lewis Howes: It’s like a stick. 

Jason Harris: It’s a stick. It’s like this is the way you’re successful, is parenting other people. And this is obviously opposite now, which is you got to know who you are, lean into your true self and that’s how you’re successful, you know. It’s your character in who you are. 

Lewis Howes: I love them man.

Jason Harris: Oh, yeah. So it’s that. And then the soulful part, which I’ll talk about, which you’ll relate to. I was watching you’re big idea, intro video. About what’s your big idea? 

Lewis Howes: Uh-huh.

Jason Harris: And it is about the soulful piece, that pillar is all about, what are your skills, like everyone has two or three skills that they’re really good at. And then what are the things that you care about your purpose? And you try to like line those two things up, and that’s what being soulful is all about, you know. It’s like, if you can line those two things up, you know, basically, you take like a sheet of paper, you write down your three skills and three things that you care about, like your purpose, and you figure out how to put those together and that’s how you can like give back into the world. 

Lewis Howes: Umm.

Jason Harris: That’s like what I do with; It’s On Us campaign…

Lewis Howes: Um-hmm.

Jason Harris: You know, for go to the White House. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason Harris: I know how to advertise, there’s a cause there…

Lewis Howes: Um-hmm.

Jason Harris:  It’s like Pencils of Promise to bring in your summit back to where you were from. You know, it’s putting those skills to what you care about.

Lewis Howes: Sure. Yeah. 

Jason Harris: So lots of lots of books about that. Then being a generous person; being an empathetic person like understanding other people. 

Lewis Howes: I love it man. 

Jason Harris: Yes, it’s cool.

Lewis Howes: I love them. 

Jason Harris: And so these are all the habits and I get into like how to develop those habits.

Lewis Howes: I love it. 

Jason Harris: Yeah, it’s cool. 

Lewis Howes: We’ve got a Jason Harris in the house. Welcome to the School of Greatness man.

Jason Harris: Thank you.

Lewis Howes: Pump that you’re here.

Jason Harris: Thanks for having me. 

Lewis Howes: You just gave a brief overview which we’ll just leave that in. 

Jason Harris: Oh, okay. Sunny L.A. 

Lewis Howes: We met back in 2010, 11, 12. 

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: Why don’t we– where was the first meeting? Was it through Brandon or was it through—

Jason Harris: Yeah, through Brandon. 

Lewis Howes: Was it trying to do something I can’t remember. 

Jason Harris: I don’t even remember. But maybe it was like getting you to market something for.

Lewis Howes: Probably.

Jason Harris: Or something like that.

Lewis Howes: Yeah. [00:07:49 – inaudible] always asking people to do stuff for you.

Jason Harris: Yeah, [00:07:51 – crosstalk]. You know.

Lewis Howes: I can’t remember, maybe I met Brandon in somewhere…

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: Through Tim Ferriss and one of his events or something like that, I can’t remember. 

Jason Harris: The komodo of that? 

Lewis Howes: Maybe.

Jason Harris: Yeah, yeah.

Lewis Howes: Was he there?

Jason Harris: Yeah, he was there.

Lewis Howes: Were you there?

Jason Harris: No, he went instead of me.

Lewis Howes: He went that’s why I met him. 

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: I mean, we got connected and I hadn’t learned about your guys’s company – 

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes:  — Mekanism. And you guys do — tell us what you do specifically at Mekanism?

Jason Harris: So we’re creative ad agency. And so we work with brands to figure out what they’re going to stand for in the world and then create the marketing materials, and messaging ads, social media, do media planning, buying basically put their message – develop and put their message out into the world.

Lewis Howes: So you’ll find the directors. You’ll script the commercials. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: Or the video assets whatever it may be. 

Jason Harris: Yup, yup.

Lewis Howes: And do everything from concept, to idea, to launching and to promotion marketing everything?

Jason Harris: Yeah, it’s like —

Lewis Howes: Tech service?

Jason Harris: Assembly line, you know.

Lewis Howes: Wow.

Jason Harris: It starts with a strategy, what is the brand going to stand for? As a brand like Peloton fit into the fitness world? How are they different to the creative? What’s the concept? What’s the ad going to look like? Then to making it like you said and then pushing, pushing on to —

Lewis Howes: Right, the marketing. 

Jason Harris: –the marketing, and then tracking it and then repeating it.

Lewis Howes: Is that a four-step, five-step process? What is that?

Jason Harris: Yeah five or six. [laughter] I can’t feel off the idea that you got.

Lewis Howes: So a brand like Peloton…

Jason Harris: Yeah? 

Lewis Howes: Is it public their numbers of like what they’re looking to –? 

Jason Harris: Probably not public but —

Lewis Howes: Is the multibillion dollar company, right?

Jason Harris: Yeah, they’re multibillion dollar evaluation? Yeah, definitely.

Lewis Howes: And how – where would they be without an agency like you guys helping them with all that marketing, the launch, their messaging, the commercials that I see on TV, all that stuff?

Jason Harris: Well, I think you know, we were certainly part of helping them craft the brand making the brand feel sophisticated, making the brand consistent over time. But you know, really they just had a incredible product. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah.

Jason Harris: And the thing that is great about Peloton is saying come out with a bike or a treadmill, or a digital app. It’s all based around the community. And the communities really, you know, leaderboards, the community, through social super supportive. And so focusing on that community, they can just come out with multiple, multiple products.

Lewis Howes: Products.

Jason Harris: So that’s really what they focused on. 

Lewis Howes: Its community. 

Jason Harris: The community. And what we do is make the brand… we up the brand through production value, storytelling, and so we just sort of complement what they build, but, I mean, they just cracked the code.

Lewis Howes: Crushed.

Jason Harris: It’s about community, and it’s about working out from your home. 

Lewis Howes: It’s amazing. 

Jason Harris: It’s on-demand workouts, I mean, they just killed it.

Lewis Howes: It’s amazing. 

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: What’s been the biggest challenge from a marketer advertiser standpoint since you started the business? What’s the brand that you had the hardest time working with coming up with like this process for?

Jason Harris: The hardest brand to do that for? I’m trying to think of a brand that I worked with in the past. Because you know, I can’t name my current clients.

Lewis Howes: Gotcha. [laughs]

Jason Harris: That’s not cool. 

Lewis Howes: Gotcha. Yeah, yeah, the past?

Jason Harris: Uhh…

Lewis Howes: Maybe one that was challenging, but then you figured out like, oh, this was the hook and ended up working out. 

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: Maybe it’s a current brand to those. Like man, this is really challenging to figure out how we’re going to launch this message in the world? 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: But then it was like a big success when you did?

Jason Harris: Well, I would say we work with Charles Schwab. So we do Charles Schwab ads, which is broker firms. 

Lewis Howes: It’s hard you did. 

Jason Harris: And trying to switch. It’s all about switching from —

Lewis Howes: To find the best firm and who is in the lowest fees and the best quality. 

Jason Harris: Yeah, and so the team — and we’ve been working with them for a while. But what really sort of catapulted a lot of their success is the team crack the idea of coming up with instead of talking about what Schwab is, talk about the other guy, and so they came up with this character, Carl, who is like, sort of a lot of the opposite values of this book. He’s like, not trustworthy. He’s just trying to close a deal. Not even for the long term, he’s overcharging. And this guy, Carl was the character and it was the push off of the opposite of Charles Schwab. And so that sort of unlock which is a unique idea because usually think about putting the brand first, and this was —

Lewis Howes: Not talking about the other brand.

Jason Harris: Not talking about the other brands, but this was personifying sort of like, what Apple Mac, did, you know? 

Lewis Howes: Yeah. 

Jason Harris: Those ads. The Apple PCS. 

Lewis Howes: Topic those brands.

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: In ATT, can you hear me now?

Jason Harris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lewis Howes: Topic the other guys cuz like here. 

Jason Harris: Yeah, exactly.

Lewis Howes: State Farm is actually doing that right now. Kind of words like, the State Farm agent is there and it’s like, or you’ve got your grandmother who’s got –

Jason Harris: Right, right.

Lewis Howes: — the insurance agent that you are trying to get ahold of her. It’s like, “Hey, Baily.” It was – [chuckles] 

Jason Harris: Yeah, yeah.

Lewis Howes: That can be effective, yeah.

Jason Harris: It worked really well for them. 

Lewis Howes: That’s cool. Man, what’s been the most fun you’ve had working on a brand? Obviously, they’re all fun because you…

Jason Harris: We just did the launch of MedMen the cannabis company. And I think just being able to be part of that story, and tell that story of how cannabis used to be, you know, George Washington, grew it on his farm. And then 

Lewis Howes: President?

Jason Harris: Yeah, the president grew it on his farm, and then we went through, you know, this period that we’re coming out of now, where it wasn’t accepted, you got thrown in jail for carrying a little bit of it. Meanwhile, you can like get prescription drugs, go nuts with those drugs, alcohol, all these other things when cannabis is, you know, a lot less… proven to be a lot less of an issue in society. And now, we told that whole story and talked about it being the new normal we’re now it’s becoming legalized in every state slowly over time. But cannabis is here to stay and it helps, there’s a lot of health and wellness benefits. I think just being able to tell that story in a really interesting way with that diorama look; I think that’s been we’re really proud of that.

Lewis Howes: That’s cool man. This new book that you have is called The Soulful Art of Persuasion, the 11 Habits That Will Make Anyone A Master Influencer and we were talking a little bit before about how you – were talking about the other traditional books on influence and persuasion like How to Win Friends and Influence People.

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: But you said there, those other books that would teach these kind of like tactics?

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: What was wrong with those types of strategies or tactics versus kind of these 11 habits that you have here?

Jason Harris: So you know books like how to sell, all the old Dale Carnegie stuff from the 1929, 1930s, which are still perennial sellers. That was created in an age of selling and pitching. That was much different than the age we live in now. You know, we really live in an age of distrust, where you don’t know if it’s, you know, there’s fake news, there’s phishing scams. It’s hard to trust Google and Facebook anymore, you know. So – 

Lewis Howes: Sure. You don’t know who is taking your privacy, whatever, yeah. 

Jason Harris: Who’s taking your privacy, and so we live in a different time and back then, it was much more, those lessons are much more about how to friend people by letting them talk act like you’re interested in the things they’re interested in, getting to —

Lewis Howes: Keep nodding at them. 

Jason Harris: Keep nodding; say their name in 12 times. 

Lewis Howes: Right. 

Jason Harris: Everyone loves their names, say their name 12 times. 

Lewis Howes: : Give them a gift. 

Jason Harris: Get them – yeah, yeah, get them to yeah, exactly. Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: The law of reciprocity, of course.

Jason Harris: Exactly. Get them to a yes, really quickly. And then I talked a lot about in this book that, you know, I have a chapter called Never Be Closing.

Lewis Howes: Huh.

Jason Harris: And those – 

Lewis Howes: Not ABC? 

Jason Harris: That’s right. So it’s the opposite of NBC. 

Lewis Howes: NBC. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. Yeah. Its [00:15:16 – inaudible] “oh, yeah, NBC… ting!” [chuckles] So it’s the Glengarry Glen Ross idea of, you know, get them – it’s all transactional. Just get the sale, get the sale, get the sale, and never be closing philosophy is about playing the long game, building relationships over time, understanding that, that’s what creates value. That’s where you’re successful. That’s where you win. You don’t win by checking off deal, deal, deal, it’s about long term relationships.

Lewis Howes: Yeah.

Jason Harris: And playing the long game is how everyone should be thinking.

Lewis Howes: I like that.

Jason Harris: You should be thinking, never be closing. It’s never, not about the close — 

Lewis Howes: So true.

Jason Harris: Yeah, it’s about the long, long term value of a relationship.

Lewis Howes: I like that’s all I’ve done, because in the beginning of my kind of journey, which was 10 or 11 years ago, I didn’t have anything to offer. I was broke, I had nothing to offer. And I remember being like, I could really get something from everyone right now. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: But why would they give me something when I have no value to give them? 

Jason Harris: Right. 

Lewis Howes: So I started saying, “Okay, how can I be the champion of everyone’s network?”

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: Just match them with someone that that could really be beneficial to them. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: If someone needed to hire a sales rep or a marketing person, or whatever it was, I was just trying to find people for other people’s needs. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: And I just continue to add that value. And that became the value that I can add to people. And over time, they were like, how can I help you back like, this has been amazing for me, and like you introduced me to this person, you helped me here. And I was just like, I don’t need anything right now. And I would always just kind of delaying the ask… 

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: Until I had a book or something really meaningful that I wanted to, I guess close on. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: But the more that I think we do what you say, which is just like delay the ask.

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: And don’t try to close all the time. Just how can you give and give and give? I think that’s – so you guys do a good job with that too. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. So what you hit on is that idea of generosity, which is sort of another idea. They’re being generous. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah. 

Jason Harris: And one of the habits is like, habitually giving something away that every interactions, whether it’s a piece of advice, it’s a connection, you know, don’t hold those connections, like give them away freely. It could be, you know, when you have something simple, like a book or a story that you read that you like, send it to someone, you know. You don’t just post it for everyone to read. You send it to someone on a one on one basis. And just building – think about just habitually giving things away it pays off with compound interest. You don’t know how, and you’re not doing it.

Lewis Howes:  Yeah.

Jason Harris: So that one day, you’re going to sell a grip load of books, you know. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah.

Jason Harris: You’re doing it because it becomes a habit and becomes part of your character. And then, you don’t know how but you know that that’s going to turn into business success, personal growth. 

Lewis Howes: Right. 

Jason Harris: And so that’s another one of the sort of principles in the book. 

Lewis Howes: There’s 11 Habits To Becoming A Master Influencer, right?

Jason Harris: Yeah, yeah. 

Lewis Howes: And persuading people is that what it is to –?

Jason Harris: It’s all about persuasion. 

Lewis Howes: To buy into your vision, your dream, your products, your company, anything right?

Jason Harris: That’s right.

Lewis Howes: And to you.

Jason Harris: And to you. And the idea is that we’re all persuasion sort of a loaded word, you know. But we’re all persuading all day long.

Lewis Howes: Yeah. 

Jason Harris: I mean, you’re persuading — 

Lewis Howes: I call them enrollment.

Jason Harris:  Enrollment? Yeah.  

Lewis Howes: Were they’re enrolling people into our vision or into our requests.

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: Or they’re enrolling us out of it. 

Jason Harris: That’s right. Yeah. And it’s simple things like you’re convincing your girlfriend, what, where to go on vacation? 

Lewis Howes: Exactly or where to go to for dinner? 

Jason Harris: Where are you gonna go for dinner. So all day long, you’re persuading your boss to give you a raise or a company to hire you, or someone to publish a book like all day long, there’s micro instances of persuasion. And this is really just about building a personal character and habits to allow enrollment to be more natural and [00:18:53 – crosstalk]. And it’s also about being yourself and finding a purpose because that’s what gravitates people towards you is really knowing yourself, leaning into your quirks, being able to be vulnerable. I remember when we did the, we had you at the White House —

Lewis Howes: Um-hmm, that’s correct.  

Jason Harris: — for the, It’s On Us campaign. 

Lewis Howes: It was crazy. I stood up for [00:19:14 crosstalk]

Jason Harris: You stood up and told the story.

Lewis Howes: Crazy man.

Jason Harris: And the whole place was just like in awe, that you know, a macho dude could be that vulnerable – 

Lewis Howes: Yeah. 

Jason Harris: — to that audience. And it opens everyone else up and unless you are really comfortable, knew yourself, knew where you’re coming from; you wouldn’t have the power to do that, which you were able to do.

Lewis Howes: Yeah, for context, people listening I was, wasn’t, Joe Biden was there something it was like –

Jason Harris: Yeah, we did a campaign with Joe Biden called “It’s On Us”, which was to end sexual assault on college campuses. And we brought you and a bunch of [00:19:50 – crosstalk]

Lewis Howes: Yeah, in spite on our people in the room. 

Jason Harris: Couple hundred people to meet. 

Lewis Howes: At the White House. 

Jason Harris: Yeah, Joe Biden’s talking, yeah. 

Lewis Howes: And I said – and someone said, “Hey, we’re gonna ask you guys to like make it requests on how you’re going to support this campaign?” 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: And so different people stood up. And I felt called in the moment to stand up and share story for a minute or two about being sexually abused myself and how I didn’t think other people should suffer with this or go through this personally because the trauma it creates and what I was going to stand up for. So, yeah, you got to be really confident yourself.

Jason Harris: Right. 

Lewis Howes: And know yourself, like you said.

Jason Harris: And be able to be vulnerable. 

Lewis Howes: Be able to be vulnerable.

Jason Harris: Be able to not be perfect. Like we all come – we all have flaws, we all have issues, we all have things we’re trying to overcome and accomplish. Whatever wherever we came from, whatever our background, leading into those gives you power, you know, not trying to push those down and suppress them leading into being vulnerable and things that you’re going through. 

Lewis Howes: Absolutely.

Jason Harris: And being able to talk about it – 

Lewis Howes: Yeah. 

Jason Harris: creates power.

Lewis Howes: And we were talking about stuff beforehand, which we won’t go into here because it’s not public information. But your ability to be vulnerable in the middle of things in your life right now is as powerful and allows you to connect with me and chase who was just connected with as well. 

Jason Harris: So yeah, exactly. 

Lewis Howes: So it’s about. 

Jason Harris: Yep. 

Lewis Howes: Now, you got these 11 Habits, and there’s kind of four core…

Jason Harris: Principles.

Lewis Howes: Principles. And then there’s kind of sub-principles around that. That’s right? 

Jason Harris: Yeah, right. That’s right. 

Lewis Howes: So the first one is original.

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: What is that mean to that? Be original?

Jason Harris: So that’s really about yeah, being an original, you know, it’s that Oscar Wilde quote, “Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.”

Lewis Howes: Um-hmm.

Jason Harris:  And it’s sort of a few habits around how to lean into your authentic self. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah. 

Jason Harris: And find your truth. And, you know, one of them is the persuasive power of storytelling, and really understanding what drives you, how to tell your story. And so there’s sort of some more workshops in here about like, how to do that and how to pull out your story? 

Lewis Howes: How to tell better stories?

Jason Harris: How to tell better stories and really understanding what your story is and what you stand for and that’s part about being original.

Lewis Howes: That’s interesting.

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: It’s an art to learn how to tell stories. 

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: It can be very challenging for people. I find it very challenging for me telling stories. 

Jason Harris: But it’s kind of your job is it? 

Lewis Howes: It is but I feel challenging. 

Jason Harris: That’s still you do all day long. 

Lewis Howes: It’s still challenging. 

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: You know for me, I’m good at telling other people’s stories. 

Jason Harris: Right.

Lewis Howes: But I’m not good at like coming up with stories on my own. 

Jason Harris: Yeah, yeah.

Lewis Howes: I’m a good at like telling their story. 

Jason Harris: Right, right.

Lewis Howes: But to [00:22:12 – crosstalk]is tell stories.

Jason Harris: You tell stories.

Lewis Howes: But um… Someone told me one time you know facts tell stories sell. And so if you’re a guy or girl or person who’s got a lot of facts when you’re talking to someone, it’s not going to sell them or persuade them as much. 

Jason Harris: Yes.

Lewis Howes: It’s if you tell a story.

Jason Harris: That’s right. There’s this – go into in the book, but there’s a psychologist Jonathan Haidt who said, “The mind is a story processor, not a logic processor.”

Lewis Howes: Umm.

Jason Harris: And it’s really about that facts and arguments kind of go in one ear and out the other, like stats, and numbers, and data. It might be important but stories really matter when you know Martin Luther King is talking about he has a dream, you know, that one day his four children will be judged by the content of their character and not the color of their skin. He’s telling a stories, he is telling a dream. He’s not talking about socio economic numbers and what this population has, this population doesn’t have, or the unfair balance. He’s making a really big proclamation and he’s telling a story a dream he had, and that’s what we remember, you know, that’s the power of storytelling.

Lewis Howes: Yeah, right.

Jason Harris: To always think about it that way.

Lewis Howes: Okay, we got the power of storytelling.

Jason Harris: Power of storytelling.

Lewis Howes: You got you said, never be closing, that’s part of the original. 

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: Because a lot of people are always selling something, right? They’re trying to get the sale as opposed to giving and adding value. 

Jason Harris: It’s just transaction.

Lewis Howes: A lot of people. 

Jason Harris: Try check, check, check, check. And when you’re transaction based things come and go. And part of never be closing is also looking at when you, you know, philosophy of like, when you hear a no, it’s just no for now. You know, it’s not no, it’s not over. Like we, I mean, even at work, we will have clients we won’t win the pitch. You stay in that relationship.

Lewis Howes: Yeah, maybe three, five years later, or come back around.

Jason Harris: Six months later they come back around. 

Lewis Howes: Six months?

Jason Harris: Yeah, okay. 

Lewis Howes: They gonna have good experience and then —

Jason Harris: Five, who know, five years. I mean, Brandon just want a piece of business that we had pitched. He wanted – yesterday, that we pitch two years ago. 

Lewis Howes: Really?

Jason Harris: Sort of stayed in touch with the client, all of a sudden that someone made a mistake and he was right there.

Lewis Howes: And there you go. 

Jason Harris: And picked it up. So that’s part of that philosophy is —

Lewis Howes: Okay. 

Jason Harris: — it’s switching your viewpoint.

Lewis Howes: And you say, another habit is to turn and face the strange, what does that mean?

Jason Harris: So turn a face the strange is all about my idol, David Bowie.

Lewis Howes: Yeah. [chuckles]

Jason Harris: And so I learned about this concept of being original, really from David Bowie. And David Bowie, obviously, he was a musician and when he started, he his label wanted him to do folk songs like Bob Dylan, and he was David Robert Jones. And those albums like tanked. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah. 

Jason Harris: But no one heard of them. Music was like somebody else. It wasn’t him. And so he quit. Left the label, went to like a Buddhist monastery, studied mime of all things you know, strange dude. He started an experimental arts lab, came back and reincarnated as David Bowie created these story Ziggy Stardust that then why do different albums and leaned into his – you know, he wasn’t afraid to fly his freak flag.

Lewis Howes: Um-hmm. 

Jason Harris: Was he man or woman? Was he homosexual? Heterosexual? You didn’t really know.

Lewis Howes: Um-hmm.

Jason Harris: But that was him. You know, that was him was stirring things up and being himself and now he’s you know, he became one of the bestselling artists of all time. 

Lewis Howes: Wow.

Jason Harris: By leaning into authenticity, and what he stood for. And so that’s why… 

Lewis Howes: Being strange.

Jason Harris: Being strange. 

Lewis Howes: Whatever you to face strange.

Jason Harris: Trying to face the strange, whatever your quirks are. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah.

Jason Harris: Lean into your quirks. Like don’t try to be what someone else wants you to be. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah.

Jason Harris: Don’t do what the label as, do what’s inside of you.

Lewis Howes: Well, a program that stand out and become more of who they are the ones that benefit the most in the future.

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: If you’re just trying to be like everyone else. We’re just trying to fit in in the same way?

Jason Harris: Blend in. yeah. 

Lewis Howes: And you’re not really making a mark on the world. You’re not making a big impact. It’s the ones that are willing to be strange and accepted that’s the key.

Jason Harris: That’s right. Yeah.

Lewis Howes: I love the show Glee for that reason. 

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: Because I kind of here to watched glee.

Jason Harris: I watch glee. Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: For me it was one of my favorite shows. 

Jason Harris: My favorite shows.

Lewis Howes: It’s all about like, the “weirdo’s”. 

Jason Harris: I saw the Glee concert.

Lewis Howes: No way. You do?

Jason Harris: I did. I saw the glee concert.

Lewis Howes: I’m jealous. 

Jason Harris: Yeah, I saw the Glee concert. 

Lewis Howes: I don’t even know it was a concert. 

Jason Harris:  I know. 

Lewis Howes: I don’t even know it was amazing. All the cast was there?

Jason Harris: Yeah, the cast performed, yeah. 

Lewis Howes: Oh, my God.  I’m so jealous.

Jason Harris: And they’re awesome.

Lewis Howes: That’s amazing. But those were all like the kind of the weird outcast I guess of the school. But the other ones that like, when they finally accepted who they were.

Jason Harris: That’s when they — 

Lewis Howes: That’s where they shine.

Jason Harris: Exactly. 

Lewis Howes: So you’ve got to learn to accept who you are. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: Even if it goes against everyone else, and should go against everyone else. 

Jason Harris: That’s right. 

Lewis Howes: But that’s when you’re going to shine the most. 

Jason Harris: Yeah, yeah.

Lewis Howes: I talked about being generous. This is another key principle in persuasion. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: This is kind of like the old law of reciprocity like when you give. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: People feel inclined to want to give back. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: So why is… why do you say, you know, give yourself away the pull of positivity and just a little respect?

Jason Harris: So well, they all come from, they’re all based on the same concept that you –

Lewis Howes: Um-hmm.

Jason Harris: So some of these habits you inherently have. You inherently had generosity is one of your habits. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah. 

Jason Harris: And so you were connecting people,  when you didn’t know where it would lead –  

Lewis Howes: Yup. 

Jason Harris: — that’s just who you were. Other people can – they don’t have that, they can learn that skill, you know. These are all skills that you can practice and learn. Like anything else they’re their muscles that you got to work out. 

And, for me, generous is all about not expecting anything in return and just giving away. Respect is another form of being generous. And, you know, I cover a study in the book, that Harvard Business School they interviewed 20,000 employees. And the number one thing that they said made for good leadership was respect.

Lewis Howes: Yeah.

Jason Harris: It wasn’t time off. It wasn’t a raise or money or promotion. That’s the number one driver was respect. And if you respect the people you interact with and work with, I mean that’s where the action is.

Lewis Howes: You’ll get more out of that —

Jason Harris: You’ll get more out of that.

Lewis Howes: — that include in that team?

Jason Harris: Yeah, you’ll, if you respect them and see them as peers that’s what is going to level you up. 

Lewis Howes: Interesting. 

Jason Harris: Yeah, yeah.

Lewis Howes: I heard these stories about how Steve Jobs was disrespectful to a lot of his product developers that he’d like throw the phone back in their face or whatever you know, and talk bad about people. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: But maybe that’s just one off times, but maybe he also had a level of respect for them.

Jason Harris: Somehow, some other way?

Lewis Howes: Yeah, some other way. 

Jason Harris: Or maybe he was that one in a million that was such a freaky genius. 

Lewis Howes: Or he had other habits that were

Jason Harris: Yeah, you just followed him because you’re like, I don’t like this dude but he’s got.

Lewis Howes: Yeah, but he’s got amazing.

Jason Harris: He’s amazing. 

Lewis Howes: He’s got a vision if you’re putting it out there. He’s been persuasive another ways.

Jason Harris: Yeah, he was an original though. 

Lewis Howes: He was an original. 

Jason Harris: He was an original for sure. 

Lewis Howes: He was an original. Okay, so we got generous, that one of the key habits.

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: You give yourself away. The pull of positivity, what does that mean? 

Jason Harris: So the pull of positivity is just simply, there’s a lot of different ways you can take persuasion. And I cover – that sort of covers. There’s negative parts of persuasion, which are also really effective.

Lewis Howes: Um-hmm. Like fear based persuasion?

Jason Harris: Fear based persuasion. 

Lewis Howes: It’s like my old football coach in high school or something. It was just like, scream got you, if you drop the ball, you’re like, “Ahh!” you know. 

Jason Harris: Did that — was that effective? 

Lewis Howes: It was not effective for me. 

Jason Harris: It wasn’t effective.

Lewis Howes: I mean, in some ways it made me work hard, but it made me constantly stressed. And I don’t think you want that out of the people around you. You don’t want them to be feeling fearful and stressed –

Jason Harris: You’re right. 

Lewis Howes: By your level of persuasion.

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: Like if you don’t do this, then I’m going to scream at you more. 

Jason Harris: Yeah, yeah. And so it just sort of studies, like the impact of negative versus positive persuasion, and how positive persuasion wins on the long run. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah. 

Jason Harris: You know, negative persuasion can certainly have its benefits and be effective. You see it in politics all the time. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah, that’s crazy. 

Jason Harris: And that mean that’s all it is.

Lewis Howes: Crazy.

Jason Harris: That’s all it is. It’s just like –

Lewis Howes: Fear based attacks.

Jason Harris: Yeah, there was a 1964 Lyndon Johnson add it was sort of one of the first like campaign as like that, that was called Daisy and it shows a girl in a field picking daisies. Then a nuclear bomb goes off. And then this screen like fades to black. And it’s basically like —

Lewis Howes: The world’s ending. 

Jason Harris: Like if I don’t vote for this dude. 

Lewis Howes: Oh, my gosh. 

Jason Harris: I’m on my my, you know, my family’s gonna blow up in a nuclear war. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah, it’s crazy. 

Jason Harris: That’s negative persuasion it was effective.

Lewis Howes: It works. 

Jason Harris: You know it works because that’s fear based. And this just argues that the opposite is more productive for society. 

Lewis Howes: More sustainable –

Jason Harris:  More sustainable.

Lewis Howes:  –more healthy. Gosh. 

Jason Harris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lewis Howes: The politics, it seems like…

Jason Harris: It’s gotten a lot worse, right? 

Lewis Howes: People when based on those fear based tactics.

Jason Harris: I do. Yeah. I mean…

Lewis Howes: But I feel like Obama won based on positivity.

Jason Harris: He did. 

Lewis Howes: And an image an ideal of something greater. 

Jason Harris: That is why he won. 

Lewis Howes: Right?

Jason Harris: He broke through because he wasn’t going to get down to that level. And I mean, look how, from there to where we are.

Lewis Howes: It’s crazy, right? 

Jason Harris: It’s the pendulum has swung like so far. 

Lewis Howes: Maybe it’s always been —

Jason Harris: Now it’s like name now. It’s like bully name calling.

Lewis Howes:  It’s crazy. 

Jason Harris: Yeah, I know. 

Lewis Howes: It doesn’t seem productive. But that’s just mean. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: So you got the be original, you got the generous, you know, this giving mentality –

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: — when we give of our time, of our energy, of our listening, of our respect. It doesn’t have to be constantly giving gifts. It can be just our connection; can be generous with our listening.

Jason Harris: That’s right, time, advice, connections, compliments that you think of but you don’t say. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah.

Jason Harris: You know, you always feel that — 

Lewis Howes: Yeah. 

Jason Harris: You’re like, oh, she’s dead and you don’t. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah, yeah.

Jason Harris: You know like, give those messages out there, like give that positivity off.

Lewis Howes: And that’ll make you more persuasive. 

Jason Harris: That will make you more persuasive. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah. And then empathetic. Why is empathetic is such a key to persuasion and being influential?

Jason Harris: So really, that the basis of that is about the idea that we are all connected and related. You know, human beings are, where the universe is only storytellers.  We all share 99.9% of the same DNA.

Lewis Howes: Hmm.

Jason Harris: But not yet. That being said, the world is like seems super fractured. And so that’s really just trying to understand your audience. And there’s sort of habits on how to do that. And not my dad doesn’t have the same beliefs so we don’t we hate, we were like complete opposites. You still have… you still share so much in common and it’s understanding shared values. We all at the end of the day want the same things and so…

Lewis Howes: Safety, love.

Jason Harris: Safety, love…

Lewis Howes: Connection. 

Jason Harris: Connection. 

Lewis Howes: Intimacy.

Jason Harris: Human connection, yeah, that those are sort of the drivers. And how do you understand how to look for those and don’t shut people down? Try to be a little bit more open and be empathetic and —

Lewis Howes: How are you empathetic when someone is attacking your, making your wrong or screaming at your, just doesn’t want to bring the common ground — 

Jason Harris: Energy.

Lewis Howes: — energies, spirits, when it’s just like, screw you, you’re wrong. You mess this up. I hate you.

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: You know, type of energy?

Jason Harris: Well, I think it’s your job. And you know, there’s cases where you’re just like I defend.

Lewis Howes: Yeah, yeah.

Jason Harris: Like that’s not worth my energy. But there’s ways to unpack what’s behind that emotion and what’s below it, and why that person feels that way. 

Lewis Howes: Through empathy. 

Jason Harris: Through empathy and trying to see things from their perspective, why they feel that way and not talking them to away like if they’re talking to you, you talk to him back because that’s counterproductive. If it’s something in a business relationship or a family relationship, if it’s a relationship you don’t need, you know, that’s fine. 

Lewis Howes: Right, Right, right.

Jason Harris: You don’t need that in your life. But if it’s if it’s something that you need to work through, it’s how do you understand and ask them key questions to see things from their perspective, yeah. 

Lewis Howes: Empathy. 

Jason Harris: Empathy. 

Lewis Howes: Collaborative, imperative.

Jason Harris: Yeah. That’s all about coming together and working together.

Lewis Howes: I used to be so focused on competition my whole life. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: And it wasn’t until a few years ago when I was like, “Man, it’s really hard being competitive with everything.” And while I just start being more collaborative with everything. And — 

Jason Harris: Yeah. When you think that like — what?

Lewis Howes: I mean it started to gradually change over the last six, seven years when I started to open up about sexual trauma and really –

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes:  — kind of being vulnerable about the things I’ve been through in my life, accepting myself for who I was as opposed to try to put on these masks. So it really started to shift after that, because I was like, “Man, I’m always trying to compete with everyone to prove my worth to people or to the world.” 

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: Or whatever to myself. And when I was like, “Well, I don’t have to prove myself anymore, because now I accept myself.”

Jason Harris: You’re right. 

Lewis Howes: So I can just collaborate more. And every year I get more and more of this collaborative spirit. Where I think my default is I want to destroy everyone. Like, I want to crush everyone. 

Jason Harris:  [chuckles] That’s like programmed didn’t you?

Lewis Howes: Right. It’s like, I need to win, I want to crush but then I’m like, okay, that doesn’t support me. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: And it doesn’t support humanity. 

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: Having that mentality.

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: So why don’t I always come from a place of how can I lift everyone else up and be generous to everyone else? And they’re gonna, you know, I’m gonna be up there with them.

Jason Harris: Wasn’t that why you’re successful to that? 

Lewis Howes: Yeah, yeah. 

Jason Harris: Because of that mentality. 

Lewis Howes: Exactly. 

Jason Harris: And that shift. Did that happen when you were working on your book? 

Lewis Howes: Yeah. 

Jason Harris: or did it happen like – ?

Lewis Howes: It happened – 

Jason Harris: Did it happen before that? With the book sort of pull that?

Lewis Howes: It was about six years ago. Yeah, wrote my first book it started to happen right before that. Yeah, it started having maybe a year before that, when things started to shift. And it was more of like I was just trying to do things to prove to everyone that I was like, good enough or something. 

Jason Harris: That you’re the man? 

Lewis Howes: Exactly. That was like the best. 

Jason Harris: Right.

Lewis Howes: And I was just like, “What am I doing?” 

Jason Harris: Right.

Lewis Howes: This doesn’t support anything being like I told you, so. Or like feeling like, “Ah,  got ya.” 

Jason Harris: Right. 

Lewis Howes: Even it was internally. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: Like, “Okay, got what?”

Jason Harris: [laughs] Right.

Lewis Howes:  Do you know what I mean? It’s like –

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes:  Why don’t we just all succeed? 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: So I mean, my platform in the last six and a half years has been a platform of sharing other people’s stories. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: And putting them in front of my audience. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: And I think that supports me by putting the spotlight on someone else. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: It always shines and reflects back on you.

Jason Harris: Yeah, it’s true. That’s great.

Lewis Howes: As opposed to saying, “Hey, everyone, look at me all the time.” It’s not like look at this idea, this person, this experience.

Jason Harris: Right. 

Lewis Howes: And then the reflection.

Jason Harris: And when you think about competition, what are you trying to win anyway? 

Lewis Howes: Exactly. 

Jason Harris: You know what I mean? Like what is winning? How do you define them?

Lewis Howes: To be like the number one person in the space or most selling books or biggest, whatever. I mean, I always want to grow. 

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: And make a bigger impact. But I’ve –

Jason Harris: Even that came from Sports?

Lewis Howes: Absolutely. 

Jason Harris: That’s like that mindset came from sports?

Lewis Howes: I came being the youngest before — 

Jason Harris: Okay. 

Lewis Howes: I feel like I was never seen.

Jason Harris: Uh-huh. 

Lewis Howes: And needing to be like –  

Jason Harris: “Yo, I’m here. Look at me.” Yeah.

Lewis Howes: Catch up to my siblings. You know my siblings were always amazing. I was like, how do I beat them or catch up to them or whatever. Then sports, so I think it’s hard to shift out of that mindset when that was my entirable life, was like being number one and being the best. And then I eventually realized, when I, my first business was building, it was kind of the engine that got me to where I was to building like a multimillion dollar business. But I remember just like, lots of relationships were suffering because I was very combative. It was like my way or the highway. 

Jason Harris: Yeah, yeah. Because –

Lewis Howes: And –

Jason Harris: I think that’s like a young entrepreneurial mindset. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah, to kind of prove myself.

Jason Harris: Which is like, I can do this. I can lead. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah.

Jason Harris: But you can’t do it without the team. 

Lewis Howes: It’s it.

Jason Harris: Like you gotta do it together collectively. 

Lewis Howes: That’s when I started to shift  – now I started to shift six years ago or six and a half years ago and a lot of things evolved and, it not only evolved in the external world, but my internal world evolved. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: And that was when I brought a lot of peace to my life.

Jason Harris: I love that. So I have a story on empathy. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah.

Jason Harris: That and understanding other side that I just can’t, I can’t believe this isn’t a movie, but I ran across it as I was working on the book. But in in 1914, World War One there was it’s called the Christmas truce. Have you ever heard of it?

Lewis Howes: Christmas truths?

Jason Harris:  Truce?

Lewis Howes:  Truce?

Jason Harris: Yeah, T-R-U-C-E, Truce. And on Christmas Day, there was the Allied forces and the German forces. And on Christmas one side, started seeing like carols.

Lewis Howes: Shut up. 

Jason Harris: And they all crawled out of their trenches and foxholes, and they, for the entire day, they like swap pictures of their family.

Lewis Howes: Shut up. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. And they made soccer ball out of masking tape. And they had like a soccer scrooge [00:39:04 – inaudible]

Lewis Howes: No way.

Jason Harris: I swear to God. Then at the end of the, you know, that carried on into the evening, the end of the day, they went back into their foxholes and start killing each other again. And it was war, you know, one of the bloodiest wars of all time. That shows you like how similar people are at the sort of pinnacle of like, I mean, we’re talking about war, like, I’m going to kill you. 

Lewis Howes: Wow. They came together?

Jason Harris: And that the idea of coming together. 

Lewis Howes: And no one shot anyone? No one stab anyone?

Jason Harris: Because it’s Christmas day they put down their weapons, and then they went back…

Lewis Howes:  Oh man, it’s so sad. 

Jason Harris: And then they started killing each other. I know.

Lewis Howes: It’s so beautiful and sad at the same time.

Jason Harris: I don’t know, I know it’s Christmas truce.

Lewis Howes: Why don’t you just create a piece from there? 

Jason Harris: Yeah, I know. It was just like… 

Lewis Howes: We’re all trying to like, go back home. 

Jason Harris: Yeah, let’s just call it, you know. [laughs]

Lewis Howes: Yeah, it’s all like they’ve gone. You take your land off and by land.

Jason Harris: Yeah, exactly. Fees out, yeah.

Lewis Howes: Wow.

Jason Harris: Yeah. So that shows like,  just to help the common ground that we can share it, you know, even in war, you know, yeah.

Lewis Howes: Yeah, it’s all about collaboration. 

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: And then the fourth habit main principle is soulful? 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: And that the importance of skill hunting and personal Jesus. What does that mean? 

Jason Harris: So… 

Lewis Howes: It’s a skill hunting I think is something I talked about as one of the greatest things I’ve ever done for myself. 

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: Is mastering and lots of different skills. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: So I have like this tool belt with all these different skills that I can whip out. 

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: I can play guitar, I can salsa dance, I can build a business so I can speak on stage, all the things that I was afraid to do. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: I started writing lists when I was younger, and I said okay, I need to no longer be afraid of this. I need to master this. 

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: And it became skills not fears, is that kind of skill hunting is?

Jason Harris: It’s pretty much what it is. I mean, I think you kind of live embody this. It’s, I mean, you talk about how you were fail in English. 

Lewis Howes: Yup, yup. 

Jason Harris: And then you ended up —

Lewis Howes: Writing a book.

Jason Harris: Writing bestselling books. And I just that, that switch. But the idea behind skill hunting is you know there’s sort of like life hacking, which is like shortcuts, like the fast fastest way to productivity. And then there’s  — 

Lewis Howes: Which is not really skill hunting?

Jason Harris: It’s not skill hunting, it’s like shortcuts, right? Which is – 

Lewis Howes: How do you hack it to kind of do it a little bit? 

Jason Harris: It’s effective. And then there’s the idea of, sort of more and more and more. Like just work until you grind it out and you’re successful. Which like, I mean, if you don’t have a good idea, more and more and more is going to not do anything for you. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah. 

Jason Harris: And so the skill hunting sort of lies in the middle of those which is you be really really great at a few things and then every couple years, add like a new tool to the tool belt as you would describe it. Keep trying to look at skills and don’t look at a little hobby is like not important. Look at it as like, dive deep into it. Learn a passion like learn something really, really well and then that’s a skill you’ve developed. And then move on from there, but don’t try to do like 12 things at once.

Lewis Howes:  Yeah. 

Jason Harris: That sort to gathers this…

Lewis Howes:  One sort of six months to a year.

Jason Harris: Yeah, gather these skills and then over time it will be…

Lewis Howes: What a skill mastering more skills do for your persuasive abilities?

Jason Harris: Well, I think, first of all, you have to be really, really good at like two to three, but you have to master some skills. Then you can go find other skills. But you have to really, really, really master some skills. There is a study recently about the most trusted person in America. And it’s Tom Hanks. 

Lewis Howes: Eeally?

Jason Harris: I mean –

Lewis Howes: He’s an amazing guy. Who doesn’t like that guy? 

Jason Harris: But who even knows what kind of guy he is?

Lewis Howes:  I don’t know.

Jason Harris: Who knows?

Lewis Howes:  But seems to be very trusting.

Jason Harris: Well, the reason why is like he’s one of the best actors ever. Like he is –

Lewis Howes:  It’s amazing.

Jason Harris: He crafted his skill, so that you trust him. It’s why celebrity endorsements work. You know why you sell products with celebrities, because they’re so skilled that you’re like, well, if they’re hawking this product, I trust that they’re trustworthy people because they’ve –

Lewis Howes: Mastered that skill. 

Jason Harris: Mastered that skill. 

Lewis Howes: Interesting. 

Jason Harris: And so mastering a skill I think is just really critical to success and not trying to jump in to a gazillion things, but really master two or three things, and then add layer on skills after that. 

Lewis Howes: Wow. 

Jason Harris: Yes. So I mean, you did that with…

Lewis Howes: Of course, sports and [00:37:56 – crosstalk].

Jason Harris: Sports and that, yeah. 

Lewis Howes: That’s cool. So, skill hunting, mastering skills will make you more persuasive because people will trust based on your skills, that you’re more credible? 

Jason Harris: That you’re more credible and trustworthy. Because —

Lewis Howes: You’re hard working, that you’re consistent, you’re committed… 

Jason Harris: You’d been able to learn something and be excellent at it and not just proficient but excellent at it. And then the personal Jesus part is then adding purpose. What is your give back? What are you doing in the world? That’s not just for profit, or for ego?

Lewis Howes: Um-hmm.

Jason Harris: It was a lot of ego. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah. 

Jason Harris: Out there. And so what is the purpose piece? And how do you look at your skills and match it up with giving back?

Lewis Howes: Yeah. 

Jason Harris: So for you, you know, Pencils of Promise is something that you’re you know, really dedicated, passionate about.

Lewis Howes: Yeah. 

Jason Harris: And so it’s really lining, you know, there’s an exercise in there of like, what are the two or three things you’re really skilled at? What are two or three things you care about in the world? And if you stare at those two lists long enough, you’ll come up with an idea of how to combine those. It’s why, you know, from an ad guy, I’m a madman, right? 

Lewis Howes:  Yeah, yeah. 

Jason Harris: Like I said, advertising I’m super skilled at that is why we took those skills to you know, fight sexual assault, and I created a group called The Creative Alliance. It’s 90 companies that do social good pro bono work. Those are taking the skills of advertising; you wouldn’t think advertising where we’re trying to sell products and services for profit.

Lewis Howes: Right? 

Jason Harris: Could do good, but anyone can take whatever skills they have, and figure out a way to apply them being to make the world a better place. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah.

Jason Harris: And that makes you a more persuasive person. 

Lewis Howes: That’s interesting.

Jason Harris: Yeah, yeah.

Lewis Howes: Wow, man.

Jason Harris: Yeah, cool. 

Lewis Howes: It’s exciting. The Soul for Art of Persuasion: Not just the art of persuasion, The Soulful Art. The 11 Habits That Will Make Anyone a Master Influencer. What’s something people can do today that can make them more influential right after listening to this, whether they – and get your book and dive into all the exercises and everything, or not? What somebody can do right now to make them more influential?

Jason Harris: Like the first easy thing?

Lewis Howes: Easiest thing that’s just like something they can do in the next hour. Like when they meet the next person, they talk to what something they can do differently that they don’t normally do?

Jason Harris: Yeah, I think the idea of not looking, switching the mindset of transactional thinking is the number one quickest way and thinking about it as the long term viewpoint, that’s sort of the number one thing I would say you could do right away. And anyone can do that switch.

Lewis Howes: Yeah.

Jason Harris: That’s a really easy thing to do. 

Lewis Howes: So NBC?

Jason Harris: Never Be Closing baby. 

Lewis Howes: Never Be Closing.

Jason Harris: No, don’t do it man, yeah.

Lewis Howes: But eventually you gotta close?

Jason Harris: Yeah, you will close.

Lewis Howes: To run your business or to get to the partner you want. You’ve gotta ask for something right? 

Jason Harris: Yeah, of course. You can ask. 

Lewis Howes: Right? 

Jason Harris: You can pull, not push.

Lewis Howes: Um-hmm. 

Jason Harris: You know, that’s sort of the big difference. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah.

Jason Harris: You can pull them towards you but not push.

Lewis Howes: I like this man. I like this. So working it, they get the book? What the best [00:41:09 – inaudible]

Jason Harris: Amazon, Barnes and Noble. 

Lewis Howes: Do you guys have a website for this or personal website?

Jason Harris: Yeah, 

Lewis Howes:

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: Do you have a personal website or more mekanism?

Jason Harris: Just and

Lewis Howes: is one word? It’s pretty good.

Jason Harris: Right. but it’s with a K.

Lewis Howes: That’s, right. 

Jason Harris: Yeah, yes. That’s the difference. 

Lewis Howes: I like it. So the book is at the

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: Do you have any bonuses or anything with it? 

Jason Harris: Yeah, yeah, they can download the first chapter. 

Lewis Howes: Gotcha.

Jason Harris: Check it out. So they could like it.

Lewis Howes: I like it, man. 

Jason Harris: Yeah, yeah

Lewis Howes: This has been years in the making for you.

Jason Harris: Three year journey. 

Lewis Howes: Lots of research. 

Jason Harris: Lot of research.

Lewis Howes: Lots of exercises. Practical, powerful, inspiring storytelling based book, make sure you guys pick this up. I’ve got a couple questions for your left. This is called The Three Truths Questions. 

Jason Harris: Alright.

Lewis Howes: So imagine at your last day on earth…

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: A hundred – 200 years from now, right and you get to live as long as you want to live.

Jason Harris: Oh, that’s dope.

Lewis Howes: You get to live as long as you want. 

Jason Harris: Alright.

Lewis Howes: But eventually, you got to call it quits, right?

Jason Harris: Okay. 

Lewis Howes: And the lights, the lights shut off on this experience for you and you go somewhere else. And you’ve created everything you want to create in the world. You’ve achieved it all, you’ve done anything you want to do, you’ve done it. Before, whatever reason, you’ve got to take all that work with you. So no one has access to this book. You are its all advertising.

 Jason Harris: I wiped off?

Lewis Howes: You see it’s all… not wiped off.

Jason Harris: Okay.

Lewis Howes: Gone with you to another place.

Jason Harris: Okay, alright.

Lewis Howes: But no one has access to it. 

Jason Harris: Okay. 

Lewis Howes: But you get to leave behind a piece of paper, that you get to write down three things you know to be true about every experience in your life that you would leave behind for the rest of us. The kind like the three lessons that you want to lead behind. So three things you know to be true. This is all people would have to remember you by.

Jason Harris: Okay. 

Lewis Howes: What would you say the, your three truths.

Jason Harris: So the three truths to pass on to someone?

Lewis Howes: Yeah, the lessons to the world. 

Jason Harris: Yeah, okay.

Lewis Howes: Kind of like your commandments.

Jason Harris: My commandments?

Lewis Howes: Three of them.

Jason Harris: Okay, alright, three of them, alright, number one, Be Kind. Like that the mental idea of viewing the world through that filter of kindness to other people’s sort of foundational, I think it’s a foundational point of view.

Second is, Be Yourself. You got to – no one can understand you if you don’t understand yourself. So you got to fully be yourself. What’s number three? Be kind, be yourself. And, don’t live it live your life by what other people think. And so if you’re making change, it should be change that you want to make, not how it’s going to impact or how what people are going to say about your change.

Lewis Howes: I think that’s one of the biggest regrets of the dying.

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: I think there’s a you know, five top regrets and it’s like, not living my life to please other people, but to do it for me. 

Jason Harris: Yeah. It’s really hard to do.

Lewis Howes: Really hard especially when you have kids and you’re married.

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: And you got business, and you got people that you will need to learn.

Jason Harris: Yeah, every action impacts other people.

Lewis Howes: Exactly.

Jason Harris: But it’s you know, you can be yourself and be kind. And then sometimes you have to once you know yourself, you got to do things for you. 

Lewis Howes:  That’s it.

Jason Harris: You know you got to do things for you also. 

Lewis Howes: That’s it, man. That’s it. The Soulful Art of Persuasion:  I want to acknowledge you from member Jason, because you’ve always been kind and generous to me.

Jason Harris: Uh, thanks man.

Lewis Howes: For at least seven, eight years. 

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: You’ve never been closing. You’ve always been giving, you’ve always been authentic.

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: You’re always offering. You just offer me like, “Hey, when you’re New York, come use the podcast and we have.”

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: You never asking for stuff. And I really respect your creativity, your ability to match those two things. You talked about, like your skill sets, and really helping people get their message out to impact their world in a better way.

Jason Harris: Right.

Lewis Howes: Whether it’s Peloton with their community, or MedMan, or whatever may be really sharing better stories. 

Jason Harris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lewis Howes: I think storytelling is a lost art that you’ve mastered? 

Jason Harris: Yeah. 

Lewis Howes: So I respect to your generosity, your kindness, and your realness. You are yourself at all times.

Jason Harris: I tried to be man.

Lewis Howes: So proud to be yourself.

Jason Harris: I tried to be.

Lewis Howes: I love that man. 

Jason Harris: Thanks man.

Lewis Howes: I love this about you. 

Jason Harris: Yeah.

Lewis Howes: Final question. But make sure you guys get The Soulful Art of Persuasion, The 11 Habits That Will Make Any Anyone a Master Influencer and get it right now. Make sure to check it out. 

Final question is what’s your definition of greatness?

Jason Harris: Wow. They say greatness is a process, right? So like, you’re always trying to achieve that. But I think, you know, something that I’ve learned, which I know you’ve learned to, it’s kind of that competitive thing where you’re never happy.

Lewis Howes: Um-hmm.

Jason Harris: You’re never happy. Like you’re always like striving, striving striving. 

Lewis Howes:  Yeah.

Jason Harris: And I think greatness to me is comfort and where you are at all times. That to me is like the definition of greatness. Being wherever you are at any given time. Making that like the best thing it can be and that’s really hard to learn. 

Lewis Howes: Yeah, accepting where you’re at right now.

Jason Harris: Accepting where you’re at to me is that’s what great people do. That’s greatness. And it’s really hard in this modern era to do that.

Lewis Howes:  Yeah.

Jason Harris: Because it’s all about climbing, and striving, and moving and, you know, more and more and more, but I think that to me is like being present and accepting where you are at all times is definition of greatness.

Lewis Howes: My man Jason Harris. Thanks, brother. 

Jason Harris: Yeah, thanks, man. 

Lewis Howes: Appreciate you, bro. 

Jason Harris: Appreciate here.

[background music]

Lewis Howes: There you have my friend. I hope you enjoyed this episode with my good friend, Jason Harris, and all the wisdom that he has brought together from his years of experience in the business, about how to persuade people, how to persuade clients, how to persuade customers, how to persuade audiences. He’s done it all and got a lot of wisdom to share.

Make sure you check out his new book, Soulful Art of Persuasion: 11 Habits That Will Make Anyone a Master Influencer is out right now.

If you enjoyed this share with your friends You can text one friend and say, “Hey, I think you might like this episode, check it out.” You can put it on WhatsApp group, you can share it on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, let me know and tag me @lewishowes when you do on social media. And leave us a review we’re constantly creating great content, sharing it with you, every single Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I love to hear from you. Leave a rating over on Apple podcast right now. Type in a comment of what you enjoyed about this, as I’d love to hear from you. 

Big thank you again to our sponsor DoorDash. Now, you can go to DoorDash right now download the app in the app store and use the promo code GREATNESS and get $5 off your first order of over $15 or more, when you download the app at DoorDash. Make sure to check it out. I love convenience, and I love to pay for convenience and that’s what DoorDash does. They’ve got 340,000 restaurants and 3300 cities. So you’re gonna find restaurants you’d love locally and other big chains as well. Check it out for $5 off by downloading the app DoorDash and using the promo code GREATNESS.

And also big thank you to NetSuite. This is all about helping you save time, money and unneeded headaches by managing sales, finance, and accounting. Orders and HR instantly right from your desktop or phone with the world’s number one cloud business system, NetSuite. 

Right now you can get a free guide: 7 Key Strategies to Grow Your [email protected]/greatness. Again, get your free guide 7 Key Strategies to Grow your Profits, right now. 

Life is about persuading people to get what you want, to get your message across, to create a vision for yourself that people buy into, to get hired for the dream job to start a business and get funding. It’s all about persuading people to get someone to marry you were constantly persuading. And there are strategies to do it in a weird negative way. And there’s other ways to do it that are more soulful, like Jason has talked about. 

And the quote that I love the most from Roosevelt is, “People don’t care how much you know, until they know how much you care.” And if you truly care about your ideas, and you care about helping other people achieve their goals and their dreams, you will ultimately get everything you want in life when you care deeply about other people. I hope you know that. I hope you know that I care. And I appreciate you listening every single week. As always, you know what time it is. It’s time to go out there and do something great.

[background music]


Music Credits:

Comment below

let us know your thoughts

join thousands of
greatness subscribers
on your favorite platform