Cal Newport, Jesse Itzler, Joshua Fields Millburn, Rich Roll, Chris Guillebeau

Lewis: This is episode number 809 the power of minimalism. Welcome to the school of greatness my name is Lewis Howes a former athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur and each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today, now let the class begin.

Leonardo da Vinci said “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” And Henry David Thoreau said “As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler; solitude will not be solitude, poverty will not be poverty, nor weakness weakness.”

Welcome to this episode you are a dreamer and a doer, you are someone who is actively looking to grow your life to improve your life and the life around you. Your environment matters to you, the relationships in your life matters to you, your health matters to you. You care about the world, you care how you’re gonna show up in the world. You are consciously and actively making progress towards a better and I am so grateful that you are here and I love you so very much.

This is a special episode on the power of minimalism. We’ve had so many incredible guest who have transformed their life from being in one chaos to an abundance of material things or just material possessions and also just a lot of thoughts and ideas constantly running in their head which created chaotic mind and a chaotic heart and body.

This is all about tapping into the power of being minimalist. What does that mean? What’s the value from this? How can we achieve more by doing less? How can we create more love by being an inner peace?

Today we’ve got some special guest the first one is Cal Newport, he’s a computer science professor at Georgetown University, in addition to academic research he writes about the inner section of technology and society and he’s interested in the impact of new technologies in our ability to do productive work or [?]. And he also does not have social media and because of that he’s able to do deeper more meaningful work.

We’ve got Jesse Itzler who is an ultra-marathon runner, who is a best-selling NYT author, award winning rapper and original partner of Zeco water, he’s the co-founder of [?] and the co-owner of the NBA Atlanta Hawks.

We’ve got Joshua Fields Millburn who is the co-founder of the minimalist, he’s got one of the biggest podcast in the world on this topic NYT best-selling book, a big documentary over on Netflix and a tour all over the world.

Rich Roll a good friend of mine who is graduate of Stanford University, Cornell Law School. Accomplished vegan and ultra-endurance athlete, a former entertainment lawyer who was overweight, out of shape, living the lifestyle that wasn’t working and change to this minimal lifestyle.

Chris Guillebeau best-selling author, speaker, modern day explorer he’s travelled all over the world and he teaches ‘this is well’ and he’s got his big annual at world domination summit in Portland, Oregon.

In this interview we talked about the beliefs of being alone and the benefits about that. The lessons of living with monks and what that’s like to silence your mind. Why just getting rid of stuff won’t give you peace so saying that ‘I’m gonna be living alone with nothing to have’ that’s not gonna give you peace. The value of making drastic life changes all about saying something is not working, let’s cut it off drastically change not small little things but drastic. And how having a quest can provide meaning to your life without a quest or some type of journey or some type of yearning, searching for something bigger and greater.

Before we dive in this interview a big thank you to our sponsor lending club. Now, life can be crazy and there’s never enough time, too many things to keep track of and it’s hard to juggle all the bills and make sure you pay more than the minimum of your credit cards.

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If you guys haven’t gotten your tickets yet for the summit of greatness we just made a huge announcement for our first speaker last week, make sure to go to summitofgreatness.com and see who that speaker is and we’ve got another announcement coming tomorrow for the big next speaker. I’m super excited about this guy he sells out arena all over the world. See him speak live at summit of greatness September 5 through 7 in Columbus, Ohio. Make sure to go to summittofgreatness.com right now and get your tickets.

All right guys without further ado let me introduce to you to the minimalist podcast.

Cal: So being alone with your own thoughts is scary but it does 3 things. 1 its self-insight, so if you want to develop as a human figure out what you’re about, grow into a new face of life, become an adult and you start to ask the questions. You have to grapple with your own thoughts you have to process your experiences and make sense of it. That’s requires time.

Lewis: Ask the tough questions.

Cal: Ask the tough questions and you what you upset about and happy about are. You can’t do this while you’re in input processing mode. So, if there is something in your ear and your hand you can’t be doing this type of reflection so you don’t develop [?]. Creativity requires you to take in all this input that you’ve been receiving you got to think about it. So like someone listening to this podcast right now is an input processing mode, so their brain is in a very particular mode.

Lewis: Yeah.

Cal: Finally, there’s like a maintenance aspect to it, it’s a big deal to be process input from another brain because again we take that very seriously if you’re doing it all the time. So every time you have a down moment you’re looking at social media for example which is you know all input from other frames. So, I think this sort of low grade of anxiety that so many people feel today, a lot of that is actually lack of solitude.

Lewis: So more people are actually alone they’d be more happy?

Cal: Not all the time. So I get this quote from the book I found it in Ben Franklin’s journal when he did his first transatlantic cross when he went to London for the first time. So, he was really thinking about solitude, so you just found it in his journals and he was talking about how, well the great sages talked the value of solitude but I suspect if you made the great sages be alone long enough they would start to regret it, like you can’t have too much solitude that’s just as bad. So if you’re alone all the time it’s terrible like the worst thing you can do to someone is put them in solitary confinement. But if you get rid of every moment of solitude it can be sort of bad in some instance.

Lewis: So what do you recommend for someone who’s on social media all day? They never have any downtime because when they get home they turn the TV on and stimulating constantly, do you recommend take a 30 minute walk?

Cal: Do something without your phone once a day, that’s the easiest way just to get comfortable like when you walk the dog or whatever you’re going to the drugstore just leave the phone at home. I did this experiment where I put on a [?] and like experimenting on this idea of a digital declutter where 30 days you step away. Almost everything you do in your personal life in tech.

Lewis: From all social media?

Cal: All optional technologies from your personal life. Almost everything you do with tech for 1 month.

Lewis: TV as well?

Cal: Well yeah. The idea was you do this 30 days and when it’s over you rebuild your digital life from scratch.

Lewis: And what brings you joy.

Cal: And figure it out and then you rebuild it from scratch but I kept getting this reports from people, especially younger people who did not have an adult life before social media that it was terrifying. Taking this away that first day was really terrifying for him and I had underestimated the degree to which for a lot of people that this is a serious escape.

Lewis: Like what?

Cal: Well it can be a lot of things, I mean for some people there’s questions about their life like what am I supposed to be doing? Am I really living up to my potential? Am I really happy with the type of person you know who I am? It’s incredibly uncomfortable to confront and for other people just they don’t have high quality analogue leisure option in their life, which is another thing I learned about it seems sort of superficial but it’s actually really important.

Lewis: Like what are the examples?

Cal: Like things you do in your time outside of work that is require skills, something you can get better at and something that maybe connects you to other people as you do it. It could be like athletics for a lot of people even like their pickup basketball game or something like this but also skilled hobbies. And so getting back into that if you’ve never been before is difficult.

Lewis: I think you said in your Ted video that you like read a book every night and you relax like kind of rocking chair.

Cal: Such an old man and I read the news on newspaper on the table.

Lewis: That was like my dad, my dad read the newspaper either in the morning but after work you come home and just read the newspaper and just sitting in the room with us while watching TV or playing video games, he was reading the newspaper. Almost every night he would like fall asleep in his chair, reading the newspaper or book and just pass out.

Cal: It sounds superficial but we go all the way back to Aristotle and you see that it’s crucial to visit you just for the intrinsic quality. That’s crucial for making it inevitable for the ups and downs in life, that you have activities that you do just because you appreciate quality, if you have that it’s kind of a buffer against ups and down. It all seems superficial but it’s an important buffer and.

Lewis: The in between times.

Cal: So maybe having a hard time in life at the moment, having this sort of anchor there’s things I do just appreciate them for the intrinsic quality is deeply human. We take it for granted but having the screen, I mean you can avoid all of this because it’s easier at the moment.

Lewis: And more rewarding.

Cal: More rewarding this optimize content. You’ve been reduced to a data tuple of 19,000 data points statistically algorithms are processing. It’s reduced you to a statistical hatchet.

Lewis: You want more and you’re never satisfied.

Cal: Never satisfied but if you eat away from a culture like McDonalds like you’re not gonna be happy in the long term.

Jesse: I spent so much of my life exploring the physical side and I’ve ran a hundred mile race, I’ve done ultra-paddle board races, I’ve done marathon and I love that I learn a lot from those kind of things, but I’ve completely collective the inner work and I just felt a little distracted. I didn’t know anything about monk culture I know other than watching a couple of movies and reading a couple of blogs about the monk world, so I just said to my wife ‘I think I want to go live in a monastery’ and her immediate reaction was ‘listen to Lewis.’ I learn best without question by jumping into the unknown like that’s the best teaching tool for me and it’s always been the way I’ve gotten the most growth.

Lewis: I saw your before and after photos you posted it online and I was like ‘man you look so clear and calm.’ What was the greatest lesson you learned about yourself in the process?

Jesse: It kind of took me a while to get to that place because when I first got there literally the first minute I walked in and the main monk like my grand [?]. Its 6:05 PM what am I gonna do the next 13 hours? And he looked me in the eye and said ‘you think.’ And I was sitting in this room the size of a desk. I’m not a big meditator my former meditation was running like that’s my alone time. So, I set my timer to 20 minutes and focus on my mantra and I’m going through my routine and getting bombarded with thoughts.

Lewis: Why am I here?

Jesse: So, I go back into my mantra and back and after felt like forever and start the timer, so I look at my timer and see 3 minutes and 27 seconds. I was that distracted that I can’t even sit quietly for 3 minutes, like I’m that overwhelmed and distracted and I realized that I’m here for 15 days. I had to work it out on my own head.

Lewis: So that was one you’re distracted? That was the lesson you learned?

Jesse: Really distracted I realized, you know when I came home everybody asked me what I miss the most? But nobody what I didn’t miss and I realized there are a lot of things that I didn’t miss build up my calendar.

I went to the final during the March madness and I didn’t miss that at all, I didn’t miss going and searching through Netflix, like I didn’t miss the stuff that I do every day. I realized I want, I’m turning 50 the average American lives to about 70 years old.

Lewis: Here we go.

Jesse: If I’m average I have 28 years left, but if you reverse engineer the next 30 years like I come out of Washington [?], the relevant things to do the things you want to do like it’s limited. So, my enemy is the clock and I realized I just got to live with so much urgency and to put as much stuff of the things that I love to do with the people that I love to do them with on my plate. As soon as I got home I’m like, I’m saying no to everything unless it moves the buckets in my family life wellness, finances or cause related like otherwise. The majority of my plate I want to fill it up with that stuff.

Lewis: 80 or 90% needs to fill up by that.

Jesse: Yeah and I’ve been very lucky to live my life a lot like that, but the next 30 years 50 to 80 it’s spooky. I feel 32 but the reality I look at it every day when I pull my driver’s license out to get on a plane or like turning 50 man.

I start to reverse engineer how I want to live those days. When you’re in a routine time goes really fast and then you wake up and then you’re 70. When you get out of your routine like in a monastery and you look it this thing and its 3 minutes and 27 seconds time slows down, I want to stop the clock man I got 4 kids. So, my relationship with time in general was re-establish at the monastery.

Lewis: Really? Limiting the things that no longer serve your vision for your life and focusing on the things that do?

Jesse: And not waiting?

Lewis: For what?

Jesse: So like I climbed Mt. Washington I didn’t get to the summit with 5 friends and I came back and it’s a really dangerous mountain in the winter. I think it’s one of the 10 most dangerous mountains because of the climate, because of that I didn’t get to the top of this journey with 5 of my close friends. I came back and I’m talking to my wife about it and because I posted it on Facebook I was getting bombarded with ‘you didn’t make it?’ I felt terrible. She said “First of all get a tour guide, get proper equipment and train for it and go back next year and knock it out.” And I was like “Next winter? I’m going back on Saturday.”

Lewis: Wow.

Jesse: That’s the urgency because there’s no guarantee what next winter is going to do. So, that’s what I mean with my relationship with time it’s like ‘yes, I eliminated a lot of the things that weren’t [?] but I also a tremendous amount of urgency.’ I started to look at my enemy like my greatest enemy other than keeping my health is the clock.

Joshua: I’ve done some pretty interesting experiments over the last 6 years.

Lewis: What are the experiments you’ve done?

Joshua: First when I became a minimalist I work hard on paying my debt, so I move to this tiny 500 dollar apartment in [?] and I just started going crazy on paying off my debt. I don’t want to be tied to this lifestyle anymore in order to be not to be tied to this career I need to be able to pay off this debt.

Lewis: A thousand dollar a month lifestyle.

Joshua: I spent as little as I could so that I could get out of debt and no longer be tied to the same obligations. And so when I move to that apartment I didn’t hook up internet for the few days and the weekend or whatever and I’m like ‘I wonder if I can go 30 days without internet at home.’ That was 5 years ago and I’ve not have internet at home since and I run an online business.

Lewis: Holy cow.

Joshua: So, I can tell you the reason I don’t have internet.

Lewis: What about your phone?

Joshua: Sort of but I found other way around that too because I wanted to be able to write about that. So, it was the most productive month of my life in those 30 days, so it just sort of continued from there. And it’s not to say I won’t ever have it again someday we have an office in [?] Montana so I drive to the office and it’s a place where I can work in.

Lewis: You work there?

Joshua: Yeah. I have an office at home too but there’s no internet there but that’s a place for me to create.

Lewis: You are probably so focus when you’re at home writing.

Joshua: It’s deep work, its full concentration. So, I do have a phone at home but I keep it as soon as I get home is put it on a charging stand and in fact I go out of my way to like keep it away from my person. I try to be as present as I can and I’m constantly failing at that and I’m okay with that, I am not anyone’s yoda. So, when I got rid of internet it was maybe 6 months earlier I got rid of TV at home and realize that was anything of much value as I thought it was.

Lewis: Disconnecting you from your partner?

Joshua: Yeah, I had no TV and internet and then for 2 months I got rid of my cellphone and you learn a special kind of loneliness. You learn there aren’t any payphones anymore.

Lewis: You don’t even have quarters anymore and like, you’re not remembering the numbers anymore. I used to remember every number you know.

Joshua: You used to remember this numbers on the keypad.

Lewis: The little dial ringer you remember those?

Joshua: Yes.

Lewis: That was me 8 or 7.

Joshua: So, I realize that once I remove all these pacifiers that I had to fill the void that was something else maybe more meaningful. So, rediscover these things called books and they’re amazing.

Lewis: But you’re so minimalist didn’t have books.

Joshua: I rediscover time to create more and then the cool thing minimalism isn’t about that probation for me, like I’m not trying to deprive myself with minimalism I don’t want to live in a cave somewhere, I do want to live in the society. So, I decided to bring a phone back into my life and when I did I use it more deliberately. No longer I do have Facebook on my phone, no longer do I have emails on my phone. So, the technology is and I allow it to add value to my life but when it starts to get in the way I try to check myself for the problem, I’m the problem and once I realize that I knew I could change that by just being more deliberate with how I use it.

Minimalism wasn’t just about the stuff for me that was the initial bite at the apple that changed everything, but I think we get so caught up in just the stuff we think decluttering is just the point, I think anyone watching or listening could go in a dumpster throw all their crap in it and be utterly miserable, because you’ve just remove the pacifiers. The point is not just getting rid of the stuff and coming home to an empty house and sulking no one wants that.

Lewis: Right.

Joshua: I don’t want to tell anyone to get rid of your book collection or whatever, whatever adds value to your life I encourage you to hold onto but question what adds value to your life.

Rich: I started the podcast shortly after this book came out which was in May of 2012, I started the podcast in November of that year and it was really my intention I didn’t even know if I would do a second episode. Once I got rolling it was an opportunity to just continue the conversation that I think this book began, and one of the kind of core theme of this book is about how to basically better self-actualize, how to become the best most authentic version of yourself.

One of the themes is that when your heart is true that the universe will conspire to support you and when this book came out I put everything into like pushing it out into the world and let go of practicing law, my background is corporate law. I thought my heart is pure and this is the theme of the book, I’m putting myself out there and stepping out and I’m waiting for that universal signal of support and I got to tell you that it didn’t really come.

Lewis: Right.

Rich: I could do a speaking gig for free or maybe do a little thing here or there.

Lewis: Try to slap some books or whatever yeah.

Rich: I have four kids I have a mortgage. So, we went through a very difficult extended period of time that lasted a number of years, it was like 5 or 6 years.

Lewis: Really?

Rich: My wife calls it our divine moment where we were really brought to our knees and force a really confront our attachment to material things. It was the weirdest [?] position, because I was getting a bunch of attention and sort of in the media and yet at the same time there was a lot of suffering that we had to experience around how to kind of navigate what we were trying to accomplish and do in the material world. Ultimately we really had to burn in that fire in order to come out and I think that required a lot of faith and persistence and really just being in the moment like day to day to try to figure out what the next step would be. But I think emerging from that, I mean now everything is great my life [?] and I had so much opportunities and it’s insane. It’s hard looking back to even imagine what it was like back then, but I think it allows me to communicate with the people that are tuning into my channel and my frequency with a level of humility and honesty and just realness.

That was one of the reasons why I wanted to rewrite the book because I wanted to tell that story of what happened after [?] came out from 2012 to present because I think those events are equally dramatic if not more dramatic and certainly more relatable to the average person than somebody ultra-endurance.

Lewis: What would you say is the biggest challenge for you over the last 5 or 6 years?

Rich: I think and this is a theme that you know well, like it really challenge my idea of what it means to be a man. Like as a masculine human being like a head of a household. I was in a period of time where providing for my family was a tremendous challenge and I would not have made it through without the strength and support of my wife, I mean there were many times where I was like ‘forget it I’m going back to being a lawyer.’ And she’s like “No, you cannot do that. You’ve come so far to retreat, like the only way out of this is through and that I have your back and if we have to say goodbye to our home it’s all gonna be fine.”

It’s easy to kind of say those things but to actually live those things and [?] that storm is really [?]. So, it was because of her in large part that I even get to sit here and talk to you today.

Lewis: Pretty powerful woman it’s inspiring. We talked a lot about exercise, diet and meditation. If someone is looking to improve their life and transform their life and they wanted to get started with one aspect. Which is one do you think is the most important to start with?

Rich: It’s hard because they’re so intertwine with each other and it’s hard to part one from the other, so I’m reluctant to say one vs the other, but if you’re forcing me to do that I would say focus on your diet first. I think changing your plates and cleaning up the vibration of what you put in your body is important to the soul, and if you are intentional about that and you know really focus on trying to eat real foods as close to their natural state. In my case I eat a 100% plant based diet, if you’re not ready to take that entire leap just try to eat mostly fruits, vegetables, beans, and things like that. I think that will be a catalyst for future growth and other areas.

Lewis: Right.

Rich: I started changing my relationship with food and I think when you change that frequency of what you are putting in your body it impacts you on every level mentally, emotionally, spiritually etc… and it is a catalyst for progressive growth from there. So, I would start with that and the more you kind of refine that then suddenly you get interested because you get a sense of vitality. I guess I’ll start exploring the world of meditation.

Chris: Yeah our quest is a long term mission or goal or pursuit, it does have an end you know our quest does have a beginning and end like we’re in a lot of journey, like we’re all doing a lot of different stuffs. There’s lot of incremental steps along the way. You don’t usually begin a quest one day and then finish it the next day, there’s usually some sort of sacrifice or challenge in it and there’s an element of risk to it. And then usually what happens is more often than not the questor of the person pursuing the quest is change in some fashion, you’re usually not the same person you are in the beginning.

Lewis: Interesting. So there’s some type of transformation?

Chris: Yeah and sometimes you know what that transformation might be in the beginning other times you don’t and that’s part of embracing the uncertainty of a quest or even if some don’t relate to the quest, I do believe that all of us can embrace these values of adventure and maybe creating some structure around value of adventure.

Lewis: So, you know some might say ‘travelling to these different countries sounds like a hobby’ but there’s a distinction between hobby and quest right?

Chris: I think so and I think like a hobby is something you like to do. For the book and the study I didn’t want to just look at travel quest and that is my inclination since my travel, I’ve naturally kind of gravitated towards ways of you know there’s a guy who walks across America over 7 and a half months, there was a young woman who sailed around the world and have circumnavigated the globe in a small sail boat and she was the youngest person to ever do that. So, I tend to like things like that but I also wanted to focus on lots of different things.

Lewis: Sure.

Chris: People kind of pursuing something I guess it’s kind of pursuing something to the exclusion of everything else, or maybe not everything else but you are making trade-offs and choices you know to pursue, you are saying ‘no’ to some things in order to pursue these things.

Lewis: There’s a sacrifice. I read the story of a man who runs 250 marathons which is like, I’ve never even run 1 you know which is incredible.

Chris: I know I can’t even relate either, I have ran 1 marathon but that’s totally different than 250. So, it’s kind of interesting because I had a lot of stories like that in the first draft of the book and we did keep many of them but I got some feedback from my editor and he’s like ‘most people are not gonna be able to relate to this at all.’

Lewis: Right, exactly.

Chris: They’re gonna read a story of a dude who ran 250 marathons and like that’s awesome. So, I tried to say as well that most of these stories are actually ordinary who have just chosen to do something remarkable like they have been courageous, brave but they’re doing something that you can do too, and the central message of the book and the whole message I’m trying to put forward is not just a sociological study, I’m trying to actually say you can improve your life.

Lewis: So, we’re always told to think outside the box but you talk about getting in the box. Can you talk about what getting into the box idea is?

Chris: Getting in the box is about restricting your creativity and your ideas because we all have so many ideas and sometimes that leads to stagnation and not lead to anything.

Lewis: Too many options means no decision.

Chris: I guess for me what help in part of the creative process is in general is to restrict those options and to kind of paint some corners to myself. For the quest it’s helpful to have perimeters. There are other list out there, there are other places or geographical places which are kind of debatable and like its geopolitical conflict over whether they are a country or not. I feel like you need to have a box so for me like that’s the parameter I chose and you know I feel like that’s just helpful in life.

Lewis: Right.

Chris: I feel like if it’s self-applied then it is good.

Lewis: You got to create that.

There you have it my friends I hope you enjoyed this interview with the minimalist. The power of minimalism if you want to calm your mind, calm your world around you then start thinking like a minimalist. See how you can actually clear things out of your space, make intentional purchases, make intentional ideas, really get clear about the life you want to live and then get on with the ideas. Who are you surrounding yourself with? Be very conscious about this. What I love about this audience is you are all conscious achievers, you’re actively seeking ways to improve your life and the life around you. How this podcast has supported you in growing and becoming better and improving your life. So, thank you for all that you do.

Be a hero and a champion in someone’s life today by sending them this link to help them inspire their life lewishowes.com/809

A big thank you to our sponsor lending club. Again life can be crazy there’s never enough time, too many things to keep track on and it’s hard to juggle all the bills and make sure you pay off your credit cards. Make sure you go to lendingclub.com/greatness you can check your rates and minutes and borrow up to $40,000 and really get a hold of this stuff.

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And check out the next speaker summitofgreatness.com is coming very soon. We’re less than 3 months away. It’s going to be a weekend experience of a lifetime. Make sure to go to summitofgreatness.com super excited to meet all of you there it’s going to be a life changing experience I can guarantee that.

I love you all so very much as Leonardo da Vinci said “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” Simplify your life, simplify the ideas in your minds; silence the stress and the chaos. Be intentional with your surroundings and the people you surround yourself with and the things you take on every single day. We’ve got a big episode coming up this next Monday get ready for a huge episode.

I love you all so very much and you know what time it is, it’s time to go out there and do something great.