New book from NYT bestselling author Lewis Howes is now available!

New book from NYT bestselling author Lewis Howes is now available!


Donny Epstein

Master Your Energy and Heal Your Body

“Unless you claim extraordinary, ordinary claims you.”

Your mindset is one of the most powerful tools you have. In fact, it’s so powerful you may not even realize how much it affects you every day.

When you show up with a lot of energy, excited, and ready give fully you will energize everyone around you. When you show up with no energy and sluggish, you’ll zap the energy out of everyone in the room with you.

It’s your duty to manage the energy you give to the world with your mindset. This not only includes your day to day choices, but also the choice you make about how your past experiences show up.

On this episode of The School of Greatness, I bring you an expert on energy and perception: Donny Epstein.

“Once you realize there is a me observing the reality, things start changing.”  

Donny has been training practitioners in EpiEnergetics, which is provides strategies to unlock greater human resourcefulness, development, and evolution.

He is the founder and developer of Network Spinal Analysis, which is renowned for its mind and body applications and is one of the fastest growing chiropractic methods today.

Donny sat down with me to explain how you can gain and harness an abundance of energy, where our problems originate from, why you should expect miracles and much more, on Episode 617.

“Until you accept something, nothing changes.”  

Some Questions I Ask:

  • Why do we become unaligned to who we are?  (7:18)
  • How do we get an abundance of energy? (14:00)
  • What is life? (18:56)
  • What do you mean by withdrawal of love? (27:17)
  • Did they teach you all of this at chiropractic school? (38:30)
  • Forgiveness isn’t about the other person? (42:51)
  • What’s a miracle, in your mind? (46:16)

In this episode, you will learn:

  • Where our thoughts really come from (12:20)
  • How you can allow energy to come in (18:40)
  • The energy you should and shouldn’t be giving people (22:03)
  • Donny’s definition of pain (28:46)
  • When Donny started diving deeper into his work (39:25)
  • How you can create change that will heal (45:23)
  • Plus much more…

Connect with
Donny Epstein

Transcript of this Episode

Lewis Howes:              This is episode number 617 with Donny Epstein.

Welcome to The School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro-athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur and each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now, let the class begin.

Mark Cuban said, “If you’re not positive energy, then you’re negative energy.” The world is full of energy and you get to decide how you want to show up every single day, energetically, in your body, with your mind, with your thoughts, with your words. And the things you think create certain things in your body, certain reactions, and it’s our duty to manage these energy fields and to manage all the things that happen in our life.

And for the past thirty years, Donny Epstein has developed and trained practitioners in EpiEnergetics methodologies, which is a unique process that provides strategies to unlock greater human resourcefulness, development and evolution.

He’s the founder and developer of Network Spinal Analysis which is widely applauded for it’s mind/body application. Network Chiropractic is one of the fastest growing methods of chiropractic today, and since 1983 Dr Epstein has instructed thousands of chiropractors and chiropractic students. In the past five years he’s assisted over 10,000 attendees at the Transformational Gate seminars.

In this interview we’re covering why we become unaligned to who we really are. Also, how to get an abundance of energy. You know, with so much happening in our lives, especially as busy entrepreneurs or people with side hustles or people who have a lot of kids or just a lot of projects going on. There’s so much energy! How do we harness an abundance of energy? That’s what we’re covering today.

Also, where all of our problems originate from and how to eliminate them. Why we should expect miracles in our lives and the relationship between faith and certainty. This is an interesting and powerful one, I hope you enjoy this. Make sure to take a screenshot, share it out on Instagram, @LewisHowes, and let me know what you’re thinking as you’re listening along, and share with your friends.

And, before we dive in, I want to give a shout out, as always, to the Fan of the Week. This is from Julie Diez, who says, “Mindblown! What a great podcast! I can’t believe I just stumbled upon it! Uplifting, with great guests, makes my forty minute commute so much better. It’s just been a week, but I’m hooked! Keep it up and thank you for what you do!”

So, Julie Diez, thank you for becoming a new subscriber, for leaving a review, and for being a part of The School of Greatness community. And if this is your first time here, or six hundredth time here, but you haven’t left a review yet, go head over to iTunes right now, and leave a review, for your chance to be shouted out as the fan of the week.

And if you’re interested in wanting to earn more money and make more money, whether you have a job right now or you have a business or you just want to start a side-project, have you checked out The Millionaire Morning book yet? This is a book that over 12,000 copies have been out there into the world. It’s all over the world right now.

It’s a free book! All you do is pay for shipping and handling. It’s called, you go there, you sign up, you get the book, we ship it to you, anywhere in the world and it’s all about the things you should do in the first couple of hours of your day to set you up to earn more money that day, to make more that day, and to set you up to earn more that week, that month, year and years.

Make sure to check it out. It’s all the top strategies for what you can do to earn more money from your morning routine. Go to for the free book today.

And also, I want to give a shout out to Thrive Market. If you guys aren’t aware, you know, for me, health is an important part of creating an abundance of energy. What we put into our bodies, what we feed our bodies, foodwise, matters. So does what we feed ourselves emotionally and spiritually and mentally. And that’s why I’m a big fan of It’s the best online grocer for organic, clean, non-GMO foods and household products, at wholesale prices.

I’ve been getting groceries from Thrive for a couple of years now, and I love everything they send me. And as an advisor to the company, I’ve got a special perk for you when you check out with them. If you go to, and you get your first order there, they’re going to send you a free product, just because you’re a fan of The School of Greatness as well.

So make sure to check it out. Feed your body, your mind, everything, with powerful fuel, with powerful abundant energy that’s going to give you more energy throughout the day. Check out for more.

And as always, guys, make sure to share this out with your friends, again, I’m excited to hear what you think about this. It’s a little bit different than some of the topics we have on, but I think you’ll find it pretty interesting as well. Master your energy and heal your body, with the one, the only, Donny Epstein.

Welcome back, everyone, to The School of Greatness Podcast. We have the miracle worker in the house, Donny Epstein. Good to see you, sir! How are you doing?

Donny Epstein:             Wonderful, thank you! It’s great to be here.

Lewis Howes:               I just went through a journey with you, an experience, that I feel very relaxed, aligned, taller, and more committed and focussed [than] ever on my purpose, so thanks for the experience, and the journey. I’m sure I was just scratching the surface of what’s possible, but thanks for the work on me.

Donny Epstein:             My pleasure. Well, the key of everything is to help people align with why they’re really here. Everything else is distraction. That’s it.

Lewis Howes:               Right, yeah.

Donny Epstein:             There are forces that shape our life, shape our destiny and people, the challenge for people is, we believe the hallucination that the physical reality is all there is. And in that game, we don’t have enough to make happen what needs to happen, because every time something’s extraordinary. Every time is extraordinary. We don’t know where we are, when we are, but we know why we are.

And that’s the magic here. And what’s happening now for me, what’s extraordinary for me, is taking care of you and knowing that the forces that organise your life, in your specific way, are more aligned and the force of attraction will make you more able.

Now, people watching this, you know, “This guy is dangerous as he has been!” Now imagine getting more juice to why he’s here in that way, so we’re all in for a great ride. But isn’t the best that we can do for everyone. Isn’t that what we do in common? You know? Add value to people’s lives that add value? What else is there?

Lewis Howes:               Why do we become unaligned to who we are?

Donny Epstein:             Because of a few things. The first thing is because we become addicted to comfort. For being accepted, for being liked. Because that’s a necessary stage past survival. You see, first you have survival. This thing called biogenetic intelligence, or survival mechanism comes in. Do we have enough metabolic energy to stay alive? That’s it. And any time you don’t have enough energy, we downsize our life, because the purpose of that intelligence is to downsize your life so you survive. And that’s it. And when great opportunity comes, “Uh-uh, uh-uh, I’m not going to do it, I got to survive.”

After this we have this emotional intelligence that activates and that helps us make rapid changes, and that’s really great. But if you don’t have energy to survive, you become immune to changes you need to have. Then we have this mental thinking intelligence when we think, “This is the greatest! If I think it, it’s real!” No, no, it stays in your thoughts. And the thought intelligence helps you first develop emotionally.

You survived and became a mommy and daddy and now you can make some small changes. They cry and you need to make a response, now you have this thinking thing called a mind that makes us think that, “I’m thinking,” but all you’re doing all the time is being conditioned to to be a mini mommy and a mini daddy. Why? Because the purpose of survival is to fit in.

The next level as you grow up is you have to fit in to the world at least. If you don’t follow the rules and be accepted by people, you die or end up in prison or something else happens, it’s a stage of development we’re supposed to outgrow. “Will I be liked? Will I be acceptable?” and you’re validated, “Do you like me?” you know? That’s the stage, from the time when we’re teenagers, we’ve got to start changing that so we can get to the upper thought. Is this the best? You have to optimise.

Or, “We know you’re doing this, but what’s the real thing? How do you go about, how are we going to optimise it?” That’s great, both levels of mind, part of the hallucination is, “It’s me thinking, the thoughts are in my head, and I have to replace one type of thought by another type of thought.” Are these things true or not? And we’re conditioned to who we’re supposed to be to be accepted and have love. And this is the question, comfort is better than feeling like you’re dying.

Having a story of why things are not working is better than not having a story, because of your energy. But that story will exist in a certain level of energy. This is the key, every thought, every energy, every thought every emotion, everything you produce, every condition, every disturbance of life, only exists at a certain level of energy. You drop the energy, you get a suckier thought, a suckier experience. You raise it, you get more comfortable, you raise it, the entire story you had is outgrown.

Most people want ordinary. They want to follow the list of what’s supposed to happen in life. They want to get just that amount, because happiness is meeting a list. But your list was conditioned by what you need to get love. It’s not even your list. You fail your parents, you fail your list, and if you hate your parents, you do everything opposite to the list, you’re still not you.

So, this is it. Unless you claim extraordinary, ordinary claims you, and the culture of hallucination becomes yours, the struggle becomes yours, the effort, you own the story but not your life, but your life story has results. You have a story, you have results. And as we then claim a higher level of energy, we can now start impacting the environment more than it impacts us.

That’s what you’re doing. How many billion people are impacted by [you]? But it’s not just what you’re saying. It’s the energy around you that’s being transmitted congruent with it. Your greatness here and what you have is that you are helping generate a coherent, congruent field of energy that people could use. We think it’s the words we’re saying. It’s who we’re being.

Especially the guys, the most difficult thing for us is to believe that we can have things without effort, because the more struggle, I mean, “I’ve almost killed myself! That was the battle of the scars at work,” to realise that it’s who we’re being when that happens that makes the difference. And that’s all energy. We’re rewarded or we’re punished instantly by our energy efficiency in relationship with others.

And that’s the space between, it’s called the field, it’s where all we have, those thoughts, where they occur. Thoughts are not in your mind. Thoughts are in the field. The energy you have determines what you grab from the field and call yours. Change energy levels, it’s a different field. So we have to get the right energy levels at the right time. Like Little Bear from the three bears. Not too little, not too  much. Just right.

Even in Genesis, you know, and He created the world and it was good. It was good, time to rest.

Lewis Howes:               So you’re saying thoughts are not in our mind, they’re in a field?

Donny Epstein:             That’s right.

Lewis Howes:               What field?

Donny Epstein:             Well, between us is a space called the field.

Lewis Howes:               Between what?

Donny Epstein:             Everything. Around the atom is a field. Simple example, the magnetic field of the Earth. Thought exists as a field, emotions in a field. Electricity doesn’t occur in the wire, electricity occurs in a space around the wire, in a field around the wire. We’re not communicating, the field is communicating. Get this! Or I invite you to get this, and those who aren’t getting it, get it, okay? The nervous system perceives the world. What does is perceive? Sound. What is sound? Subtle vibration of the atmosphere around you.

Lewis Howes:               The environment.

Donny Epstein:             That’s it. What is vision? The photon light energy in the field around you. What is smell? Dissolved particles in the field around you. Taste, the things you take in. We make our senses transmit the environment and interpret it. What you’re doing is you’re not seeing the environment, you’re seeing your projection onto the environment. It’s 80% of what you see, is capturing your projection. So now when you don’t have enough energy, the environment breaks you down. You have more, you’re at status quo and you’re comfortable. That’s the big drug.

Lewis Howes:               How do we get an abundance of energy?

Donny Epstein:             It will not happen until you claim it.

Lewis Howes:               How do you claim it?

Donny Epstein:             Have a vision bigger than yourself. Hold at least two perspectives, if not three. So, the way it goes is this: When life is kind of messed up, basically less resourceful for where you are, we don’t realise we’re the one interpreting the environment or the world. “How are you doing?”

“How do you expect I’m doing? I don’t know how I’m going to survive, the book launch is coming up and I have so much to do!”

“How are you doing?”

“I don’t know, the podcast went down!”

“How are you doing?”

“I just had a fight with my daughter!”

“I didn’t ask about this. How are you doing?”

“You” equals “your circumstance”. Every time you make a difference for someone else, every time you have a new idea, every time you love more, you pause and you realise, “It’s me observing.” You see yourself talking to your woman, all of a sudden you hear yourself say, “Who is that saying that? Oh, it’s me.”

Once you realise there’s a me who is observing the reality, things start changing. And there’s a you that makes you observe, that makes you react, think, one that makes you love, and one that feels the gratitude. Each one will impart something different. Because around all energy is information. It’s a binary code. Information that is observed is simply called consciousness.

So what’s the energy consciousness around fossil fuel? Is it love? Well, we know what it is, okay? It’s called greed, it’s power, it’s control. So when you use that energy, it produces this consciousness to the world. What are you thinking when you’re thinking how this sucks, that sucks? That’s energy. It’s adding that consciousness to the world. I want people to realise that every time we use energy, we have to consciously use the energy that’s going to produce the result and consciousness in the world and the space between us.

So, we are responding to the space, because the reality is, and you know, this is going to be real crazy, but you’ve had some crazy people on here, okay? The reality is greater than what we’re experiencing. The field is that intermediate. So the field is the cloud where information is stored and based upon our energy and attention in our body, our posture, the way we experience the world, we retrieve the thought that matches it. It doesn’t match the experience. Our experience will match the energy we have.

The amount of energy that’s available, if you remember something, is it a wound or is it a gift? Was I injured, I can’t play ball any more, I have to be messed up on the couch? Or does some energy happen where you say, “F**k this.”? It doesn’t happen until the energy changes, the thoughts change. So that’s what we’re talking about. But the field is a space that we share. We retrieve that.

Traumatic memory is not stored in the body, the residence of it is in the body, but it actually, because we can’t store that much information. What I’m saying right here, we’re part of a whole sea of humanity. Why? How do you know that? When people have spiritual awakenings they have the experience of giving beyond themselves. They’re not there. They’re in the joy of others and in everything else.

When you’re building a vision, building a business, building a dream, you’re not there, the vision, you’re in the vision of what’s happening. But if it’s messed up, you’re back here again. You’re doing a podcast, you’re out there, in between, you’re messed up again. Why? Because you’re holding more energy, and the more information bandwidth you need, the more energy you need.

And why bandwidth? If you want to be a relational person you need more bandwidth. Two people you have a company now. Now, how many podcasts you doing a day or a week? How many things you doing, I mean, you need a whole team to do it, you need more energy. But the higher up you go, energetically, the more energy the system gives back, if you allow it.

Lewis Howes:               So how do you allow it to come in?

Donny Epstein:             Well, first, realise it’s not your energy, it’s not even your life.

Lewis Howes:               Whose life?

Donny Epstein:             It’s humanity’s. The quality of your life is proportionate to how big you see your system, how big you see the impact is going to be. So, what happens is this, if you hold two perspectives, things get better. You’re holding your perspective and my perspective, when you hold three perspectives, your perspective, my perspective and your audience’s perspective, that activates the cerebral cortex and creates a different field of energy that impacts people.

So if you can hold at least three perspectives simultaneously, where you’re accepting all of them, automatically there’s more energy, you can’t be stressed. Stress will just kick in when it’s just your perspective. One’s right, one’s wrong. So if you can do this as an exercise, for example, if you put your hand on your body and you focus on your breath, that’s one perspective. You focus on being here, that’s two perspectives. Now you focus on the movement, three perspectives. You focus on what you feel, four perspectives.

Most awakenings and most spiritual disciplines involve three simultaneous perspectives. When I create things I may hold seven to twenty perspectives. After a while they clump and become automatic, so I have to find another perspective. To stay on the edge. So, you hold many perspectives. That’s when you coach people.

You hear all they are saying, you’re accepting them where they’re at. At the same time you’re not accepting where they’re at. Because you’re seeing where they are and you’re seeing where they must be at the same time. That energises the field around you and that’s why people learn. That’s where they grow. Because, if we energise the field, somehow it creates synchronicity, it creates power, it creates teamwork and it’s not because of what we said, it’s not because of the brilliant words we have, it’s because of the energy we put into those words.

Lewis Howes:               Our way of being, yeah.

Donny Epstein:             That’s it. And that’s, for the guys, it’s the toughest thing. Because if we think of the s**t we accomplish, we’d zap out. And then feminine energy will tell us that’s not it. If you have a real good feminine energy in your life, when you’re down, she’ll tell you how great you are, and when you’re great, she’ll tell you you’re not so good. That’s the magic. The other perspective. That’s the magic. So that’s a really great question, how do you get there? The first thing: you have to have a compelling reason to get there.

Lewis Howes:               A conviction bigger than yourself.

Donny Epstein:             And that requires a higher part of your brain and more energy. Now, we’re rewarded and punished instantly, biochemically, by how efficient we are in helping others. When we take from the field, and you may have a family member you know, someone here listening to this or watching this, who is perhaps bipolar, who is perhaps an alcoholic, perhaps they have an addiction.

They’re always at such a low energy level, energy is collapsing so they’re requiring other people to keep putting energy into the field. And you may feel you feel drained by that, but if you believe it’s your energy, understand they’re starving for energy. They feel they can’t survive. So, part of being more aware, you should give them consciously, but don’t give them the energy they’re looking for. Give them a higher source.

Lewis Howes:               What do you mean?

Donny Epstein:             They’re looking for reaction from you. Don’t give them that. They’re looking for judgement, don’t give them that. Ask, “If things were better, what would it be like?” Or say, “What would love do?” Or just quietly bathe them in love. Because we all have a source of energy that we need that won’t satisfy. We keep habituating on that.

There’s a different one. So we have a family member, the family member is always getting edgy, it’s always a crisis. “Hey, fix her, and I’m okay!” Okay, we’re part of a whole dynamic. “Fix the economy, fix the president!” Yeah? We’re part of the whole system, and the idea is this: we drain the system of energy, inflammatory cells are built up in our body. We become depressed, and depression is depression of energy.

Depression is really rage minus enthusiasm. That person’s p**d off and not doing anything about it. If you’re making life about you, and not doing anything about making a difference, you’re supposed to be depressed, you’re supposed to be anxious, you’re supposed to be f**ng down, but nothing’s supposed to help it. It’s not making you feel better. It’s about you as a biological species being rewarded for making a difference and punished for collapsing.

Our systems collapse when you make business and it’s just about you producing a transaction, it’s going to crash and you’re going to suffer. You have to! Lewis, it comes to the relationship between my essential nature, the nature of who I am in my authentic nature, and energy and the environment. The environment is always trying to break you down. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, end of energy, break down, you die.

And if you’re comfortable in you becoming an agent of what your parents told you, the culture told you, and everything else, and your stories are protected. And even if you get successful, you’re going to drop it out or you’re going to lose it out, because you want to make sure nothing really changes. But now you’re adding to the air and now you can impact other things.

And you want an even more energy system, and even more energy system, the spiritual energy system. And it’ s not about praying or meditating, it’s about doing good s**t for people because. Because it’s about seeing people as they are. It’s what I call AEA. Acknowledging, and first becoming aware of things as they are without going to change them. Could you influence anybody if you don’t accept them?

Lewis Howes:               Probably not.

Donny Epstein:             Exactly. People say,”Get rid of my pain,” how can you influence your body or your finances until you first accept where you’re at? “Well I see it get better.” Acknowledge it, give testimony, give voice to “this is the way it is right now,” not, “it’s because of this,” this is the way it is.

And when you’re with it, when you’re with the experience, without the hunger to change it, to stop it, to make it something else, when that happens, suddenly, at that particular point, it changes, because you brought it given energy, and then accept it. That’s the way it’s been. Until you accept something, nothing changes.

With acceptance is a spiritual energy, and now you have so much energy. We call it love. And we withdraw love, that’s it! The withdrawing of love is an act of violence. People don’t realise it.

Lewis Howes:               The withdrawal of love is an act of violence. What do you mean by “withdrawal of love”?

Donny Epstein:             If you choose, “You didn’t do this, I’m going to withdraw my love from you.”

Lewis Howes:               Oh, conditional.

Donny Epstein:             Because you’re choosing to drop the energy in the system which your relationship is based upon, to punish them. It punishes you. It punishes you. The purpose of pain, undefined pain. Ask me, “How do we define pain?”

Lewis Howes:               How do we define pain?

Donny Epstein:             I’m glad you asked me that. I define pain as any uncomfortable experience or circumstance that interrupts your ability to be present in the magic of the moment. So, if you have to do a run and only play the music you like, instead of listening to what’s going on. If you’re going to the refrigerator, ten times, looking like this over and over, not knowing what you’re looking for. If you were in front of the great incurable medicator, television, flipping through the buttons on the remote mindlessly, if you walk outside and you’re at a meal with somebody and you can’t get away from your mobile device at the time, that’s pain. Our culture is addicted to all these things of pain to be with.

You don’t say, “Hey, I sent you a text message!” I’m in the room, how about talking to me? So when you talk to the person, the field engages. With the body, the most instinctive behaviour. With the smell, I know what’s true, what’s real here. Otherwise it’s a concept world.

You know, it’s great to start there, but we have to get to the next level, so, it’s the energy level that we have. The more bandwidth you experience, the bigger your world view, the more energy you need. And the key thing is you light a match, a piece of wood, a little match, a lot of heat comes out. So, it may take only little to initiate it, “Oh, it takes so much to get to the next level,” once you’re there, that’s it. So, fake it till you make it. Act as if, and it becomes. Give thanks in anticipation of having received.

Lewis Howes:               Before it’s received.

Donny Epstein:             That’s it! I mean, these are spiritual truths. Tithe, give of whatever it is to whatever your source is in some way. If you’re not getting ready to start doing that, start caring about people more, and that makes a big difference.

What I’ve recognised in working with people through all different systems and being able to measure when they’re at peak efficiency, a  coherence making a difference, in the way they experience the world, the way their bodies function, their awareness, their actions, I noticed that it’s a recipe we all have. And the recipe is a simple recipe. That there’s a structural way of making change, a behavioural way, and perception. Two of them you’re going to be good at, one of them is going to suck at every one. That means, neither.

You’re going to be terrible at structures, no matter what, you can’t even think about it, or you’re terrible at doing stuff, you’re terrible at feeling. Accept the nature and do what works. This is a big lesson for everyone, here. We’re guided. If it’s effort, it means we’re not using the forces.

Now, get back to the field. We look at this here, and lining it up. Or you put the electromagnet on and they line up in an organic way. That’s what you felt, in your body, it’s a life. If it’s effort, you’re using the mind to control the experience consistent with what you think is supposed to happen, and the larger forces of life, of instability, will try to rip that apart.

So, you have a choice. We all have a choice. Either create a temporary instability with lots of energy, or we say, “We want to see a novelty, and experience it.” If we changed everything, what would it be like if we changed this? Experience that. Find a new way to experience your love. Find a new way to kiss. Every day when I shave, I say, “I’m going to start over here.” Make a habit of experiencing things with novelty.

Lewis Howes:               With different, yeah.

Donny Epstein:             Differently. That creates your ability to see novelty and not try to block it. So either you create that, or the larger system, which wants to break everything back to dust, and life is about how long it takes to revert to dust, with the right energy, it’s going to require it, it’s going to require it.

All chronic problems in life are all a result of trying to have too much stability with your identity, and your identity is protecting you from who you really are. But you have to have identity before you lose it. You have to be somebody before you’re nobody. You have to know the rules before you break them. That’s it. Doesn’t mean you have to like them, but you have to know them. That’s what it’s about.

So, right now, what do we have in the world? I believe the biggest pain in the world, is the fact that the world, from humanity’s beginning until now, is based on a model of the world of survival and scarcity of resources. So everything is the fear of being left out, fear of losing. And we know that model’s over. The dragon is dead, just get out of the way of the tail.

So what we’re looking for here, is the first tier of consciousness from all of humanity, up to now, is based upon scarcity. We want to bind energy with the illusion of ownership. What the Millennials are doing is saying is, f**k with ownership. I don’t care, I’m going to put this on the internet, I can share this with everything. It’s a new model and we’re having… Air B&B. What do they own? Facebook, what content do they have?

Okay, take a look at this, it’s a new model. Imagine, when they started sharing songs on the internet. Let’s destroy the music industry, we just built it. So the first tier of consciousness is based on the illusion of scarcity and that I have to bind energy and information for myself, it’s mine.

My generation mastered that. We mastered it. “This is my information, it’s my data, I can’t work along with you, this is it. You’re my children, I own you. You’re my wife, I own you. We’re going to build it and whoever can take as much of a piece of the pie for themself as possible, wins.

Lewis Howes:               Until they die.

Donny Epstein:             And they die in time. This is the key. In this model, the only way you release the energy and control, is if it’s forced away from you. So you have to lose family members. You have to be raped or attacked, your identity and story has to be ripped apart.

There’s a larger force the system wants, because right now, in America, it’s really messed up, and this model of healing, to have greatness. You know, you’re The School of Greatness. Life is a school of greatness! It’s going to make you great if it doesn’t kill you first. Right? But in this model, you have to be attacked or abandoned or wounded to have greatness.

Lewis Howes:               Did they teach you this all in chiropractor school?

Donny Epstein:             None of it. Nothing. What they did do, and that’s when I went to college originally, and that was the basis of everything, was the original principle of chiropractic that was written in 1900, was that there is a universal organising intelligence in everything. We all matter. And the job of the nervous system was related to universal wisdom in forming the body and that was called health. And everything was evolving in life.

Because that came out around the same time as E=mc2. Energy, matter, one. You had Thoreau who was writing about energy compensation. You had music capturing the art in the moment. It was all about the energy, the ethers, the spirits. What the mind can see, people will achieve. This was the idea. But we got so involved in our busyness that we forgot those amazing principles. It’s time to get back to that.

Lewis Howes:               When did you start diving in deeper into that, everything that you’ve been working on now?

Donny Epstein:             It’s been a process over the years, but basically I’ve been watching the results people have, and seeing things that changed. Like, the one woman came to me, in the 1980’s. And she had rheumatoid arthritis and systemic lupis. Auto-immune diseases. And she could hardly move her hand and she would sit and talk to me like this, and she was a social worker. So I asked her, “What happened about sixteen, seventeen years ago?” Because I felt the body, and I felt the particular patterns of history.

The body gets locked up and it feels a certain way. Sexual abuse wasn’t a term we used at that time, “Were you shamed at that time?” She said, “No, nothing happened.” I took care of her, and as I held a gentle touch on her neck, she screamed, she cursed, she punches me, she jumps off the table, she starts shaking, foaming at the mouth and she starts vomiting.

I had a green carpet at that time and all I could say was, “Crazy bitch, my carpet!” Okay, and this happened, and I was like, “What’s happening?” and everyone ran into the room because she was screaming like I was attacking her. I went back in my reception. “What happened? What did you do to her? Look at you!”  I was about to get black eyes, she belted me.

So I went in there, I went to take care of her. And she was on the floor going like this. She couldn’t open her hands before, and she opened her hands. And she’s going, “Thank you, thank you, thank you.” But it was one of the turning points. A couple of visits later she told me she remembered sixteen and a half years ago her stepfather raped her. And she remembered that.

From that point on, she was kept for four years before she moved to California, her systemic lupus and rheumatoid arthritis was gone. So, I started seeing the relationship in that. But that was the powerful part. What happened was, her body went back into the posture that it was in the time of the injury, with more energy resources, so it experienced the energy differently, it brought energy source into her, it was bound up, became liberated, and now there was no longer a wound.

She experienced in about five minutes, going from the wound to a gift. But this is the more powerful part. Because in answer to the question, I’ve been looking, searching for what might be the answer, I took care of her the next time, and I worked with her gently. Gentle touch to the spine. In my earlier systems, I used gentle touch. This is how I learned what’s happening from people. I want to know.

You know, when you have a hunger to say, “How could I help?” not just fix you, but help fix your world. With a hunger to do it, somehow communication happens, because that person’s desire to be whole in what they’re here for, is stronger than even my clinical capacity and it’ll guide me. She said, “I feel so happy! I feel so joyous!” I said, “Why?” She said, “I forgive him.” I said, “Who?” The stepfather. “You could never forgive the bastard!” That’s what I said at the time, where I was at the time, I was in my twenties.

Lewis Howes:               But it’s not about him.

Donny Epstein:             That’s right.

Lewis Howes:               Forgiveness isn’t about the other person.

Donny Epstein:             Forgiveness is energy in the field. This is it. I’ll get to that. This is, I think, the crux of it: When you realise there’s an observer, the observer influences what’s being observed. And every moment you’re blessing or cursing your history, your past, your family. Which energy is necessary to liberate your dynamic between you and them, and that is the magic of manifestation.

So, I’ve developed systems where you take a look at when you’re upset with somebody, you experience it here. When you’re happy you experience it here. When you’re everything else, and if you just move where you’re experience it to, different energy, different result. So this is what happened, with this woman. She told me the next day that that night, that she forgave him. Not just that she forgave him, it was more than that.

She realised that, she said to me, “You know what I do? I’m a social worker.” I said, “Yeah, I know.” She said, “Do you know what I do? I work in the rape hotline. If it wasn’t for that, how many hundreds of girls would not be liberated? That was a gift to me!” But not just the realisation, she had more energy, her body was different, and she now recalled it when she was, when her observer recalled the experience, with a higher amount of energy, so it’s a gift.

Nothing else changed in her life. You don’t have to change your circumstance or your relationship. All you have to do is change the energetic of how you experience the world and react to it. This is it. That night, the father called her and apologised. He did not speak to her in 16 years.

He said, “Listen. I’ve been tormented. I have cancer. I’m dying. I don’t know what happened, but last night I just had so much guilt for what I did to you and how I hurt your life. And in making my peace, it just came to me last night, I have to apologise for the pain I caused you.”

It was the same time she experienced that. Because the representation of the rape in her body and in the field, was changed, so her attachment in the energy of how she’s been cursing her father all along, changed. She flipped that. Those are the things that helped me start on the path of looking at that, that if there’s no change in meaning, there’s no healing.

Lewis Howes:               If there’s no change in meaning?

Donny Epstein:             There must be a healing, you must change the meaning. Not the circumstance of your life. And then I realised, at some point there’s nothing to heal, just to energise and to be with. That’s a whole different thing. Its big. This is big.

We’re cursing or blessing people all the time, because for our comfort we want to keep them as a story. You don’t have difficulty with your husband or wife, “You don’t know my husband or wife.” Well, I don’t know you either. The point is this, you have a problem with the energy you have when you experience them in the story that you’re making, because your story gives you certainty.

How’s that? That’s a powerful one. You’re going to watch this again. Make sure you share it. Make sure you share it with the people you have contempt for.

Lewis Howes:               What’s a miracle in your mind?

Donny Epstein:             A miracle is the natural order of how life works.

Lewis Howes:               So it’s not really a miracle?

Donny Epstein:             Well, we must experience it as a miracle. The spiritual is magic. The spiritual is divine intervention. I expect miracles all the time, I expect it, that’s it. Because it happens often doesn’t mean it’s not a miracle. It’s like faith. A miracle is an expression of what happens when faith enters a space between us.

And the most difficult thing for many people and Millennials now, is they have to have their certainty, not their faith. Another thing that may help, I think it’s going to be important here. Seduction and romance, that has to happen more in the world. Millennials, that you have to have more.

Lewis Howes:               Why?

Donny Epstein:             What is seduction? Massive uncertainty, with a touch of fear, while you’re holding the energy for something greater, it may happen. And in that energy, the two of you, the energy field gets charged, excited. That’s what happens. It used to be you give a girl a kiss, or a guy, whoever is giving a kiss, go to war and dream about that person and come back, for another kiss.

The Beatles sang, “I want to hold your hand,” not your private part. Okay? If it was a different thing, it was a different thing. In that romance, in that seduction, magic happens. The good old days are never when you’re having certainty and reaching your goals. Never. That’s how you get old. It’s when you don’t know how the next thing’s going to happen.

And together with a person, in the fear, and the faith, something happens. They call that love. That’s what I believe the organising intelligence has faith in us in that way. It’s a romance with us. Most of the time it’s a sad sitcom, which is a horrible thing. But this is it.

The same sensory experience of uncertainty and fear, without energy, is called trauma. Because we’re not holding a higher vision, with something else or whatever. We now call the fear, worry. Seduction is massive uncertainty while holding a vision of something greater, for more than yourself, with plenty of energy that someone else responds to. And there’s more energy, and why do you want it? Because the body responds to energy biochemically! You’re drugged!

This is it. Baby Boomers get this. I know in the States that’s been my experience. We don’t want to fight in the wars my father risked his life for. We don’t want to work for the military industrial complex. We don’t want to do that. Love, sex, rock & roll. Free love. Just love, no rules.

We want to be in our communes or communities. I want to let you know, Millennials, you are our salvation. You are the promise of we went to the world, but we got too comfortable to go after it. Because you have your community, your online community. It’s not about binding, it’s liberating energy. It’s a free energy of pure awareness. It’s a free energy of love and enthusiasm. It’s a collective collaborative experience, because individuals know we can’t do it ourselves, unless we’re a we. This is what’s going on. It’s a shared experience.

“I can’t get them to work! I go work eight hours, I do it all.”

“I’ll give you a raise.”

“Don’t give me a raise, let me take off for my birthday.”

“F**ng birthday? You’ll be getting more money here.”

“I don’t want more money, I want to party with my friends.”

“Are your friends more important than…?”

Then I got it! Oh my gosh! I hear all the things that I wanted, from my generation as a teenager and a young adult. And you’re helping fulfil it, and I couldn’t. But I got a piece you don’t have. I got a depth of wisdom. I have a depth of energy, a depth of perspective beyond my generation. So what has to happen now, is, I believe, the Millennials, you got the future, but the next tier of consciousness is not about binding for yourself. It’s not about what are the numbers of people who I have following me.

It’s not about that. It’s not about roles, it’s about souls. The second tier of consciousness, we don’t have to be wounded to have greatness, because there’s not you and me, we are we, in one human experience. You’re seeing that now, and prosperity now, is having access to you.

The reason why, could be, in my opinion, my humble opinion. The reason why you can be as successful in life as you are in all different ways, is because you are driven by distributing information to people to improve the quality of their lives. And the finances are a result of that. Because that’s what you’re driven by.

The other model’s not going to work. That’s not good. You are one of the people holding the torch for this next tier of consciousness. I’m even articulating it. In this case it’s the abundant use of free energy and awareness. Free access. So, people go online, they have access to your wisdom, they have access to all the wisdom of all these people. I mean, this is not heard of in human history. Used to be a book. Go get a book, read a book, some people couldn’t even do it. It’s unheard of. There’s a reward for that. Access to.

Then, what is abundance? Abundance is how much you give to the field to condition it. Now, I may give to you, you may give to me, doesn’t mean it’s going to come from there. It’ll come from some place else, and somebody will give me an opportunity. It might not be an opportunity to make money. It’ll probably be an opportunity to serve somebody.

Any choice made purely rationally is a redo. Because if it doesn’t involve “what would love say? What would love do? How I’m being guided. What’s in it, universe, tell me what is not working, what is working,” not what I want less of, what more do I want to bring to the world and what more must I bring to the world.

When you hold those things, something happens and fills you. And I can promise you, Lewis, and I can promise people listening, that this is what man asks over and over and over. And that’s The School of Greatness behind The School of Greatness.

Lewis Howes:               There you go. I like it. A couple of final questions for you. This has been very interesting, and powerful. This is called, The Three Truths. So, imagine this is your last day, many years from now, and you’ve achieved everything you want. You’ve reached every dimension, you’ve enlightened yourself into whatever you wanted to do or be, and you’ve impacted everyone you want to impact. You’ve done it all. Whatever you want to do, you’ve done it.

But it’s the last day for you, many years from now in your physical body, and everything you’ve put out in the world you have to take with you, so no one has access to the information. Your words, your videos, your books, your teachings, are gone. They’re with you, but no one has access.

But you have a piece of paper and a pen to write down the three things you know to be true about everything you’ve experienced in your life, or everything you’ve taught or learned. And that’s all the world would have, is access to these Three Truths, or three lessons. What would you write down as yours?

Donny Epstein:             The first one is: What would love say? What would love do? How would love show up? Okay, number one.

Number two: Everything in creation is an expression of energy and information. Choose wisely.

Number three: It’s all magic.

Lewis Howes:               Hmm. Yeah, it is. Those are good, yeah.

Donny Epstein:             And you don’t have to know how the trick is done. That’s the faith.

Lewis Howes:               Yeah. That’s true. Okay. Where can we connect with you online?

Donny Epstein:             EpiEnergetics, I’m Epistein, okay? E.P.I. energetics dot com. [] EpiEnergetics is the conscious and ecological use of energy and information, which is extraordinary. And it’s the magic behind everything, by working with people and healing hearts and working with people, spinal integrity, eleven universities I’ve studied different aspects of the work we do, we have discovered how to produce a human identifier signature of how you organise the world authentically and how to work with that. People got Masters degrees studying this.

I’ve learned from this, how living systems, how the life force, how organising wisdom works, and there’s a lifetime of learning for all of us, including myself. So I would like to invite you to be part of this collaborative community of people who are seekers. If you know there’s more, more than the physical world. If you know you want to be more, you have to give more, you have to share more.

If you know there’s always more, and that’s what calls you. You have a calling. You have a sense, a scent of there’s more in the world, and you want to bring it, you have a way of coming home. You’re going to see commonly unseen, you’re going to hear the commonly unheard, you’re going to feel the commonly unfelt, you’re going to be the uncommonly you. Everything you thought was important will be replaced by what is important and finally, hopefully, real soon, for the first time in your life, you’ll come home. And there’s always homer:

Lewis Howes:               There you go. And they can sign up for everything there and check it out?

Donny Epstein:             They can look at all the information, all the information there. Thank you.

Lewis Howes:               Cool! One more question for you. Before I ask you that, I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Donny, for your incredible work in trying to, not trying, but supporting so many people around the world through showing them who they truly are and bringing them back home. I think it’s really powerful what you’ve been able to do and you’ve been making a massive impact on so many people. So, I acknowledge you for that.

This is the final question, it’s called, The Greatness Question. So, what is your definition of greatness?

Donny Epstein:             Greatness is an experience of a connection beyond yourself and the forces that are in existence, and the ability to manifest that in the world.

Lewis Howes:               Thanks so much, Donny. Appreciate it.

Donny Epstein:             It’s my pleasure. Thank you. Thank you.

Lewis Howes:               I hope you enjoyed this episode, my friends. If you did, as always, take a screenshot of this on your phone right now, tag me on Instagram stories on your Instagram page, on Twitter, Facebook, @LewisHowes. And the link for this is Share it out!

All the show notes, the full video interview is back at, so you can learn more about Donny and everything he’s talked about over there. Everything else we covered in this interview is back there, but this is all about: How do we have more abundance in our life? Abundant energy. And there’s always something we can do to increase our level of awareness and our alignment with our body and who we were born to be. I hope you enjoyed this one.

And again, if you haven’t got the free book yet, go to It’s all about the habits and the mindset to help you earn more money from the morning routine. Some of the top millionaires in the world, what they do and how you can apply these same strategies. All you got to do is pay for shipping and handling, check it out, Go there right now, to increase your income through your morning routine, with The Millionaire Morning.

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Again, you were born to do something great. You weren’t born just to show up, live an average life, and die. That’s not who you are, that’s not why you’re here, that’s not what this is about. This experience is about you discovering who you are, what you love, what you’re passionate about, what you’re excited about, and how you can leave this world better than when you found it. That’s what this is about. But you need the energy, you need the abundance, to be able to take on the challenges, the adversity and the journey that comes along with it.

So, I hope you got some value from this episode. Again, if you did, share it out with your friends online, anywhere. Tag me @LewisHowes, and as always, you know what time it is: It’s time to go out there and do something great!

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